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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 14, 2017 23:14:27 GMT
Spriggan isn't exactly a good model itself. I'd take Victor over Spriggan+something. Why. If you want Stealth Removal the Victor is bad at it, and its ranged presence is bad as well. Its melee presence is high end like all colossal's, but before it gets there, its presence will be very weak.
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Post by tapecrawler on Sept 14, 2017 23:23:58 GMT
You could do two Spriggans for the cost of Victor. You'd double the stealth removal but otherwise both of them seem a waste of points to me. Maybe if the Spriggan cost 15 points it would actually be fielded. But at 18? Nope. Two more points and you can run two marauders. Matter of fact, you could run FOUR Marauders for two points over the cost of Victor! The points costs for melee models and units kind of make sense to me, but all of the ranged stuff costs (aside from destroyers, Widowmakers, and Behemoth) are too much of a premium for the horrendous RAT our jacks and units have.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 15, 2017 0:21:41 GMT
The inaccuracy of Victor is kind of overstated. In reality it has a slightly greater than 50% chance to hit any given small base target with the effect of its AOE if not the direct high pow hit. Against casters who can be reasonably threatened by being set on fire that's an issue. Any of the casters that squeeze a second shot out of it can make good use of this, but in matchups where fire isn't a big threat its anticlimactic.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 15, 2017 0:28:44 GMT
The inaccuracy of Victor is kind of overstated. In reality it has a slightly greater than 50% chance to hit any given small base target with the effect of its AOE if not the direct high pow hit. That's kinda the point in it of itself really. Your paying a massive price for that single shot that will most likely miss and only have a 50% chance of having an effect. That's acceptable for like 9-14 points, but not at the points stage it is at.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 15, 2017 0:33:14 GMT
Except you can start lobbing it from turn 1 on, its a 20" range arcing fire shot that becomes a constant threat to any squishy caster. The meta making it so that fewer squishy casters see the field is a separate issue. T1 threats don't cost 9 to 14 points and have 62 boxes with 20 armor.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 15, 2017 0:40:47 GMT
Except you can start lobbing it from turn 1 on, its a 20" range arcing fire shot that becomes a constant threat to any squishy caster. The meta making it so that fewer squishy casters see the field is a separate issue. T1 threats don't cost 9 to 14 points and have 62 boxes with 20 armor. Then that's just not good design. I'm 100% sure that this is something that will be revised by PP.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 15, 2017 0:47:28 GMT
Doubt it, the good/bad of victor is almost entirely based on which direction the meta swings.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 15, 2017 0:58:54 GMT
Doubt it, the good/bad of victor is almost entirely based on which direction the meta swings. No I mean its Gun range will be nerfed with 100% certainty in my mind. PP has been systematically removing anything that can fire into the enemies starting zone, which with a Run and a Broadside from Harkevitch: The Victor can. With Shortened range comes an allowance for it to be more accurate and a change up of what it can also do.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 15, 2017 6:08:22 GMT
Maybe if the Spriggan cost 15 points it would actually be fielded. But at 18? Nope. Two more points and you can run two marauders. 18 points? Uh, does someone want to tell him? No? Sigh. Alright, I'll do it then. The Spriggan is 19 points. The Five Stages Of Grieving The Spriggan:1. Denial: "The Spriggan is still good with some casters!" 2. Anger: "What the hell was PP thinking when they made him 19 points?!" 3. Bargaining: "In the next CID, let's ask PP to make him cheaper. They can drop the grenades or something if necessary." 4. Depression: "Sigh. Back on the shelf with you, old buddy." 5. Acceptance: "I wonder how much I can get for him on Ebay?" 5.5 Acceptance If You're Wendan: "Who cares how many points he is? He has 2" reach! Bulldoze is awesome! He looks cool! Just play what you like and enjoy yourself!"
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Post by tapecrawler on Sept 15, 2017 6:11:01 GMT
LOL that actually strengthens my argument since it's only one point difference!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 15, 2017 6:12:10 GMT
LOL that actually strengthens my argument since it's only one point difference! True, you won the battle... but we all lost the war...
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Post by tapecrawler on Sept 15, 2017 6:13:39 GMT
And now you've depressed me . . .
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Post by smoothcriminal on Sept 15, 2017 12:36:58 GMT
Why. If you want Stealth Removal the Victor is bad at it, and its ranged presence is bad as well. Its melee presence is high end like all colossal's, but before it gets there, its presence will be very weak. I'd take 75% chance of working from 24" with a very good melee and defensive profile over 100% chance of working from 14" with mediocre melee and defensive profile.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 15, 2017 14:28:24 GMT
I'd take 75% chance of working from 24" with a very good melee and defensive profile over 100% chance of working from 14" with mediocre melee and defensive profile. Actually its a 35% chance based off of scatter. Of course, your also ignoring Point cost investments into the equation as well. Also a Spriggain has a better per points defensive profile than the Victor.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Sept 15, 2017 15:56:18 GMT
I am always at step 5.5
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