marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
|
Post by marke on Apr 1, 2017 11:57:34 GMT
If someone is angry at a miniatures game company I don't think the company's the problem.
|
|
|
Post by cainuslupus on Apr 1, 2017 12:56:09 GMT
If someone is angry at a miniatures game company I don't think the company's the problem. I believe in most cases people just scratched their heads and decided to keep away from clusterphysicallove that GW was. They decisions were lunatic. Like, if you take any marketing basics book, they did everything opposite. And while they made profit by inflating their prices AoS in its initial form was swan song of old management. The game in question is quite funs (AFTER Generals Handbook which was released far later) it was at start crippled by moronic PR and bussiness decisions (like blowing up the whole Old World setting to replace it with generic MTG non-world close to release of computer games using this very setting). Also - four page ruleset is a gimmick, I had problems with understanding them until I've watched video tutorial. Being pissed off at incompetent morons in charge is validated I believe, especially as they sunk bussiness that was useful for you. But companies - they are neither good or bad, they can have only good or bad managenent. PP have their share of sketchy business decisions as of late. Will I hate them if they estrange community and kill the game? No, because you can't really hate company (well, maybe you can but it stupid). But sure as hell I'll be pissed off at morons whose decisions brought this sad outcome. Criticizing moronic decisions - whether they cause you grief or you are just scratching your head in disbelief - is normal. You can also vote with your wallet. Finally - remmember that companies put a lot of moneys on the table to make you invested in them emotionally. It's one of PR functions. It's easy to get caught offguard.
|
|
|
Post by HeadHunter on Apr 1, 2017 16:46:30 GMT
And GW still does it, it hasn't been a total overnight change. They still don't do sufficient market research to estimate demand and often produce insufficient quantity of product, disappointing players who wanted to buy the item. This is still leaving money on the table. and they always hide behind the same excuse: "We were totally unprepared for the demand for this product."
Really? You hype something for months and then you're surprised when there's a demand for it? Happens with literally everything Blood-Bowl related, and it's happening now with the new Shadow Wars: Armageddon game. A lot of people were looking forward to it, and a lot of people are already disappointed because it's sold out in the first day of "preorder" (really just "reserved sales").
Those disappointed people will find something else to buy with their hobby dollars - but I wonder how many of them are going to reward GW for letting them down.
Just a little bit of market research would dramatically improve customer satisfaction, confidence and loyalty - and make GW a lot of additional money in the process. But new management hasn't made that happen.
GW's "Hype Train" has only one car.
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Apr 1, 2017 17:36:08 GMT
Yeah, the fact taht Shadow War is limited release proves they still have ground to regain. I mean... Necromunda / Mordheim / Bloodbowl reboots are the main ask i've heard from ex-GW game players in years. You'd think they would have understood there would be high demand. The bigger bummer is that limited edition box release = not a high chance for continued support. Again, bummer, missed opportunity. That said: mine is confirmed on order, will be picking up on drop date. A couple hours later I will be merrily sniping my sons new Orks until he squashes my scouts flat.
|
|
marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
|
Post by marke on Apr 1, 2017 21:32:48 GMT
Criticizing moronic decisions - whether they cause you grief or you are just scratching your head in disbelief - is normal. So is eating junk food, smoking cigarettes and sitting many hours straight at a computer. Doesn't make it healthy. Anger is a pretty strong emotion, and hopefully exaggerated in these conversations.
|
|
|
Post by Blargaliscious on Apr 2, 2017 5:54:42 GMT
Criticizing moronic decisions - whether they cause you grief or you are just scratching your head in disbelief - is normal. So is eating junk food, smoking cigarettes and sitting many hours straight at a computer. Doesn't make it healthy. Anger is a pretty strong emotion, and hopefully exaggerated in these conversations. Nope, no exaggeration. Several years ago it was real anger.
Now I just warn people against GW.
|
|
|
Post by Solaire of Astora on Apr 3, 2017 0:19:00 GMT
GW has made som big steps in the right direction in my opinion. Ofc I wasn't that fond of them canceling the game that I had ca 500 models of. But I find myself reading what they write, going on their website to check new releases and such. Haven't done that since End times.
|
|
|
Post by Cyel on Apr 3, 2017 14:23:59 GMT
I am more and more often checking GW models as alternatives to WM&H ones. I used to consider GW stuff rather expensive, but compared to PP the prices are really low. I've recently bought a War Altar to use it as a Protectorate Battle Engine and not only it is of far superior quality of pieces and detail but even with the necessary 120mm base it cost only a little more than half the price of the Vessel of Judgement which isn't particularly detailed and is, supposedly, a pain to put together!
I've also recently seen the Blightkings from a few years ago. I was shocked that, if I wanted to buy two boxes to use them as Bloodgorgers in my Cryx army i would pay only slightly more for models of such incredibly superior quality and detail.
|
|
wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by wishing on Apr 3, 2017 15:02:37 GMT
Cyel, sign up and use your inquisition avatar again so we can recognise you!
|
|
|
Post by Blargaliscious on Apr 3, 2017 23:27:45 GMT
I am more and more often checking GW models as alternatives to WM&H ones. I used to consider GW stuff rather expensive, but compared to PP the prices are really low. I've recently bought a War Altar to use it as a Protectorate Battle Engine and not only it is of far superior quality of pieces and detail but even with the necessary 120mm base it cost only a little more than half the price of the Vessel of Judgement which isn't particularly detailed and is, supposedly, a pain to put together! I've also recently seen the Blightkings from a few years ago. I was shocked that, if I wanted to buy two boxes to use them as Bloodgorgers in my Cryx army i would pay only slightly more for models of such incredibly superior quality and detail. Well, that was an enthusiastic endorsement of GW products! Wow!
You know what, because of your gushing recommendation I actually did something I haven't done in years and I didn't think I would ever do again - I visited the GW website to see what the War Altar and the Blightkings look like.
(Yawn)
If you actually like the look of the Blightkings and the War Altar, I highly encourage you to have fun with them. Have a blast!
I'm going to stick to my Bloodgorgers.
|
|
Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
|
Post by Xintas on Apr 4, 2017 16:07:12 GMT
I didn't mean to say that the people who were feeling legitimate and personal emotions were being objective; in fact, the exact opposite. It's not objective! It's raw feeling. That doesn't make it wrong or right; it just is. If people didn't take it personally, they either aren't the type of person to do that or they weren't that invested. If they did take it personally, they were invested and the kind of person who responds emotionally.
Neither is right, neither is wrong, but to discount the feelings of the other group because they are not "objectively supported" by the literal relationship between two parties is to ignore huge swathes of the human condition.
TL;DR Some people are mad and that's ok
|
|
|
Post by copperflame on Apr 4, 2017 16:29:53 GMT
I left GW after WH40K became too expensive and a new rule set invalidated my entire army. But I held onto my models for some time but with no one playing in my local meta, I eventually donated/sold the collection off.
I really loved the WH40K property. I liked Dawn of War video game Co-Op mode until they got rid of it.
Now, here is the question. If GW did so much wrong... how were they THE company in the miniature wargame market? Even today, I see a healthy following locally (I moved to a new location, new meta in a larger city). Much larger and stronger than what I see from PP (granted, the local Press Ganger was not as active as I wanted... but now those are gone?).
But still... if things are so bad, why does GW still have such a prevailing presence? Are the prices for their stuff that low? 25% less that PP? 50% less than PP?
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Apr 4, 2017 16:44:44 GMT
But still... if things are so bad, why does GW still have such a prevailing presence? Because for a long time, they were the only presence outside of historical wargaming. No-one particularly likes them, but because everyone knows someone that plays their rules, or has their models, you're more likely to find someone that plays their stuff that you're almost guaranteed a game. Even I have my dark-eldar from about 7 years ago because I know I can get a game if I move to a new area.
|
|
|
Post by HeadHunter on Apr 5, 2017 5:03:57 GMT
Yeah, that's like saying if McDonald's food is so awful, why are they the #1 restaurant in the world? Let's never confuse quantity with quality, or make the mistake of thinking profits are a measure of who's best.
Now, I wouldn't go so far as to compare GW with McDonald's, but the principle is the same. It would be like asking "If AOL's such an awful ISP, why do so many people use it?" (The answer is, because half of the human race is of below average intelligence. It's the lowest common denominator!)
|
|
|
Post by Cyel on Apr 5, 2017 7:46:11 GMT
Yeah...looking for moral high ground because of the game someone plays... very mature.
I don't play GW games any more (thinking of buying new Blood Bowl, though) but their miniatures are incredible quality. I don't think many outdated PP minis, like the aforementioned Bloodgorgers have any chance to compare favorably. They are so out of date and lacking quality and detail they should be sold at half price IMO. They would have a place in a miniature army of late 80s / early 90's. Perhaps mid 90's at best.
|
|