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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2017 0:48:38 GMT
Ice Witches got reverted. Literally back where we started from. Not even the slightest attempt to add something new...
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Post by rhonlore on Sept 6, 2017 0:57:38 GMT
I'm glad Ice Cage came back, but I've made my thoughts on Ice Cage clear earlier.
I think they could stand to be ever so slightly cheaper, but I like them the way they are.
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Post by maximumhippo on Sept 6, 2017 1:54:31 GMT
Ice Witches got reverted. Literally back where we started from. Not even the slightest attempt to add something new... Couldn't be happier, personally. I had my misgivings about them originally but playing them I found I really valued the ice cage ability and the spray on top of puppet master. If this is how they end up, I'll buy two units.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Sept 6, 2017 3:59:37 GMT
I would like them to have a little bit more in the way of actual support abilities instead of offensive spells but I'll take Ice Cage and Snow Wreathed over lame clouds that disappear when they die.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Sept 6, 2017 4:19:04 GMT
Any magic abilities we should lobby for? Like Zephyr or Winter Storm?
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Post by redbaron89 on Sept 6, 2017 4:45:07 GMT
Arcane vortex. Yes please!!!!
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Post by krigsol on Sept 6, 2017 12:26:28 GMT
Literally back where we started from. Not even the slightest attempt to add something new... Couldn't be happier, personally. I had my misgivings about them originally but playing them I found I really valued the ice cage ability and the spray on top of puppet master. If this is how they end up, I'll buy two units. Yeah, puppet master is the only "new" thing I want. Ice Cage stacks, so it's actually useful to have repetition. What I would like to see is for them to go down 1 in cost or up 1 in magic ability, though.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2017 12:42:16 GMT
I'd really like to see better defensive tech. I'd also drop the spray for anything else. As far as a support unit they are a joke compared to near any other faction. Yes I know comparing outside of faction just leads to anger/hate/the dark side.
Maybe a beast b2b bonus. A hordes version of iron sentinel? While this model is b2b with a beast it gets immune to blast and grants the beast snow wreathed?
Being the last week of CID all I know is we won't see any change till the release which is disheartening. But I can't see myself playing a model that has so many terrible aspects just to have access to puppet master.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Sept 6, 2017 15:31:28 GMT
It's a shame that they're not characters, because then we could say that one should have the ability to drop walls, and that would be sweet.
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Post by babadook on Sept 6, 2017 18:16:16 GMT
Any magic abilities we should lobby for? Like Zephyr or Winter Storm? Windwall, pretty please with ice cream on top?
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Post by neutralyze on Sept 7, 2017 2:03:28 GMT
Remember that while having a slew of abilities would be nice that they are ice witches. privateer press generally has an idea for their model concepts and what abilities they want them to have. As it stands, I can see them being 6 pts and staying as is.
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Post by maximumhippo on Sept 7, 2017 3:50:38 GMT
But I can't see myself playing a model that has so many terrible aspects just to have access to puppet master. As far as I am concerned, Puppet Master is the weakest part of their kit. It doesn't actually help fix your dice at all. all it does is appeal to gambler's fallacy and confirmation bias. When it works it's great, sure. But so far in the six games I've played with the ice witches it's been relevant exactly never. Either the dice still didn't roll well enough the second time or I just plain didn't need it. There were admittedly, a couple rolls where I rolled below average and could have used it to get more damage, on the other hand, I could have rolled even worse and done no damage at all. I want consistent dice fixing, not "oh hey, you weren't lucky that time, lets try again."
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Sept 7, 2017 4:19:02 GMT
To me, a reroll represents an extra attack when put on a model with multiple attacks that is likely to miss at least once, which makes it equivalent to 1 Fury on most models and 2 Fury when it comes to Vayl 2. It also increases the odds that single highly valuable attack roll (such as an Angelius' armour piercing attack, a Ravagore shot or Lylyth 2 casting Pin Cushion) will succeed.
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Post by snotling on Sept 7, 2017 4:25:36 GMT
But I can't see myself playing a model that has so many terrible aspects just to have access to puppet master. As far as I am concerned, Puppet Master is the weakest part of their kit. It doesn't actually help fix your dice at all. all it does is appeal to gambler's fallacy and confirmation bias. When it works it's great, sure. But so far in the six games I've played with the ice witches it's been relevant exactly never. Either the dice still didn't roll well enough the second time or I just plain didn't need it. There were admittedly, a couple rolls where I rolled below average and could have used it to get more damage, on the other hand, I could have rolled even worse and done no damage at all. I want consistent dice fixing, not "oh hey, you weren't lucky that time, lets try again." That is so wrong. You are arguing anecdotical evidence vs math. Puppet Master brings the chance for a ravagore hitting a def16 target from 50% up to 75% for example. A critical roll is more likely to succeed with puppet master You missing both rolls or hitting with the first in a couple of games doesnt change that.
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Post by maximumhippo on Sept 7, 2017 4:58:14 GMT
As far as I am concerned, Puppet Master is the weakest part of their kit. It doesn't actually help fix your dice at all. all it does is appeal to gambler's fallacy and confirmation bias. When it works it's great, sure. But so far in the six games I've played with the ice witches it's been relevant exactly never. Either the dice still didn't roll well enough the second time or I just plain didn't need it. There were admittedly, a couple rolls where I rolled below average and could have used it to get more damage, on the other hand, I could have rolled even worse and done no damage at all. I want consistent dice fixing, not "oh hey, you weren't lucky that time, lets try again." That is so wrong. You are arguing anecdotical evidence vs math. Puppet Master brings the chance for a ravagore hitting a def16 target from 50% up to 75% for example. A critical roll is more likely to succeed with puppet master You missing both rolls or hitting with the first in a couple of games doesnt change that. The probability of rolling any particular result on 2d6/3d6/4d12 does not change with how many times you roll them. If I need a 9 to hit something, I've got a 27.8% chance to roll that 9 or better. And if I miss the first one, I've got another 27.8% chance to hit it. according to probability tables, that's a 47.5% chance of a successful hit. Let's say I've got an ice cage hit, now I need a 7+ and now that roll I need is a 58.3%. More than double the odds of a successful hit with out reroll and 10% better than with. How is that not at least parity? Math has never been a strong suit. It's entirely possible (read:likely) I'm wrong. The irony of course is that it's my own confirmation bias that makes me say it's not that great.
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