thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 24, 2017 20:40:14 GMT
They're not bad, but they're not great, either. The description says that we're supposed to get a ton of utility out of them. Let's brainstorm things to get more utility out of them and push that in CID.
Ice Witches Legion Blighted Nyss Unit
SPD: 6 STR: 4 MAT: 5 RAT: 4 DEF: 14 ARM: 11
Snow-wreathed (permanent concealment) Immunity: Cold Magic Ability [6] - Frostbite: SP 8, POW 12 cold damage attack - Ice Cage: RNG 10, Cumulative -2 to DEF. 3 hits make the target stationary. - Puppet Master: RNG 10, target can re-roll one attack or damage roll.
Weapons: Cold Steel Blade P+S: 8, magical, critical freeze
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Post by cainuslupus on Aug 24, 2017 20:57:18 GMT
They're not bad, but they're not great, either. The description says that we're supposed to get a ton of utility out of them. Let's brainstorm things to get more utility out of them and push that in CID. They're mediocre. Other than Puppet Master there is nothing worth mentioning. Might've been more excited if not for Eilish coming to every faction and probable minion inclusion in Themes. 7 points is probably too steep, I would give 6. At least they're another Oracles infantry. Makes scoring easier.
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 24, 2017 21:03:43 GMT
There basically the Dhunian Knot but paying an extra point for some offense...which is better provided by the MAG[7] BFS.
Meh, they're allowed in Oracles as well as Children and DEF16 against ranged/magic is decent for me.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 24, 2017 21:20:51 GMT
Dont you notice that they are like Greylords?
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 24, 2017 21:46:42 GMT
Between innate concealment, puppet master, and clouds. I think they're roughly equal depending on what you want to build the rest of your army into. I'm not too familiar with Khador so they weren't the first to come to mind.
I personally would like them to trade Frostbite with a different spell. Ice Cage I'll take since we have other sources of it in-faction to get mileage out of the stationary. Blizzard would be the ideal spell, to dabble in the spell lists of the BFS, Knot, and Ternion. Kiss of Lyliss would also be nice, but I doubt we'd get on a 3-model unit. Blightstorm would be cool too, if they go the direction of a unique spell per witch. BTW are they a character unit?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 24, 2017 22:03:54 GMT
BTW are they a character unit? FA: 3
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Post by cainuslupus on Aug 24, 2017 22:08:17 GMT
After thinking this through - I like them. I'll take them with Vayl2 and Lylyth3 for sure.
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 24, 2017 22:40:50 GMT
After thinking this through - I like them. I'll take them with Vayl2 and Lylyth3 for sure. Plans? I've never spent too much time on them so obvious synergies aren't obvious. My immediate thought was Fyanna Oracles to help out with Angelii AP charges, and general crit fishing with BTs and Rhyas.
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Post by dxman on Aug 24, 2017 22:54:18 GMT
After thinking this through - I like them. I'll take them with Vayl2 and Lylyth3 for sure. Plans? I've never spent too much time on them so obvious synergies aren't obvious. My immediate thought was Fyanna Oracles to help out with Angelii AP charges, and general crit fishing with BTs and Rhyas. Those are a start. There are plenty of little uses for Puppet Strings, such as making sure the Seraph's Flare or Vayl2's Icy Grip hits a high DEF target. In fact, one witch can Puppet String another to make sure that Ice Cage hits. I'm mainly thinking of ways to use them as multipliers to help the whole army rather than just a single model.
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Post by redbaron89 on Aug 25, 2017 0:01:56 GMT
Initial thoughts-first glance
Sprays and puppet masters are always nice. FA 3 is interesting! Magic ability 6 is ok. Oracles apparition is solid. Giving up a hellion or forsaken in oracles increases their point cost exponentially They remind me of cephalyx overlords without stealth, tough, veteran leader, and not free in theme . A throne seems better than 2 units for 2 points more. Synergizes well with vayls, bloodseer, twins, angelius, throne. Itd be cool if they granted snow wreathed to units within 3 ala white walkers. Looks like a 7 point filler so far.
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Post by Falcen on Aug 25, 2017 0:21:36 GMT
Puppet Master: three re-rolls per turn for a reasonable price is all I really care about for them, the flexibility of PM is awesome and can be used in any list Snow-wreathed: a light defensive ability is always good, I like it being always on, compared to BFS' Stealth e.g. Frostbite: a spray is handy on such a unit, as it gives them some level of damage potential against the right targets, MA6 is a bit unreliable though Ice Cage: I couldn't care less about this spell, Legion has SO many DEF debuffs, we don't need even more of them, also playing them allongside the BFS (or multiple of them) blows up the support bloat a lot. Stats are as usual but the effect on their melee weapons is utterly pointless. FA:3 is suprising but I guess it doesn't matter much, they don't look like a unit you're often going to double/triple down on.
I wish they were a bit cheaper, wouldn't even care if they lost some of their stuff to make that happen - the weapon effect or one of the damage spells ideally.
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Post by custardboy on Aug 25, 2017 2:35:21 GMT
They look pretty solid to me. Their abilities ARE toolboxy. They're basically a straight upgrade of the greylord ternion.
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Post by redbaron89 on Aug 25, 2017 2:49:12 GMT
Theorycrafting
Twins wb 28
Zuriel 18 Seraph 14 Protector 10 Bloodseer 8 Naga 8
Throne 16 Throne 16
Witches 7
Sorceressx2 free Martyr 1 Shepherd 1
Witches might like twins. Markered for death helps fix sprays. Potential 13 sprays. Puppet master rhyas sounds legit. Potential stationary with 5 ice cages. Apparition on witches and gives a unit to score scenario!bloodseer telemetry also provides hit fix
Sidenote: if minion cid goes through itd be great to swap one throne,shepherd, forsaken for wrongeye+snapjaw.
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Post by maximumhippo on Aug 25, 2017 3:13:46 GMT
Other than Ice cage being a little boring, I'm pretty happy with them. Puppet master makes the Fyanna Oracles list much more fury efficient, and they fit right in where the Naga or Bloodseer are. You do lose the 4th free solo at that point but I don't think it's that big of a deal. I might even consider trying to fit the BFS in as well, since it'd take a bit to lose another solo and with SR17 units are important to have.
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Post by cainuslupus on Aug 25, 2017 6:28:56 GMT
After thinking this through - I like them. I'll take them with Vayl2 and Lylyth3 for sure. Plans? I've never spent too much time on them so obvious synergies aren't obvious. My immediate thought was Fyanna Oracles to help out with Angelii AP charges, and general crit fishing with BTs and Rhyas. Usual plan with those two - kill their caster. Boosted Icy grip/Lylyth3 Feat shot is basically a death sentence if lands but dice happens. PM helps mitigates that. Also - Protheus drag. They'll help with assassination or things like Angelius AP strike (finally you don't have to boost attack roll fearing snake eyes).
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