Makrar
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 7
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Post by Makrar on Aug 7, 2017 9:30:29 GMT
We need more data before any changes
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 7, 2017 9:35:23 GMT
Are we back to needing more data? Definitely. Winning almost every major tournament in the last six months isn't statistically significant ;-)
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Aug 7, 2017 10:00:27 GMT
More data!
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 7, 2017 10:29:20 GMT
I regularly play against a very good Cryx player, and it is fair to say Cryx are back and better than ever! Dark Host and Ghost Fleet are both exceptionally good themes, and Cryx still has a great stable of casters, in the right pair of hands they are devastating, and unless you come prepared for them you will get rolled hard.
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Post by flamigant on Aug 7, 2017 10:36:12 GMT
Moar data lol The data we do have clearly points to some serious flaws. I really thought with WIll P on board PP would have reacted more quickly and fairly to meta changing models.
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Post by Gaston on Aug 7, 2017 10:48:12 GMT
Let's take a look at some numbers for this tournament in Gothenburg, Sweden: Total number of players listed: 52 Number of players by faction: Cygnar: 13 (25%) - (I blame the King of Sweden Carl XVI for this over-representation.) Cryx: 7 (13.5%) Khador: 6 (9.6%) Protectorate of Menoth: 4 (7.7%) Minions: 4 (7.7%) Mercenaries: 3 (5.8%) Convergence of Cyriss: 3 (5.8%) Skorne: 3 (5.8%) Null (None listed): 3 (5.8%) Trollkin: 2 (3.8%) Circle of Orboros: 2 (3.8%) Legion of Everblight: 2 (3.8%) Retribution of Scyrah: 0 (0.0%) Grymkin: 0 (0.0%) There is a disproportionate representation of factions among the players towards Cygnar. Until there is supporting evidence, like what all of the army lists were for these 13 players or personal testimony from them, the only explanation is whatever the little voices in your head tell you. I personally think that the Swedish royal family's official endorsement of Cygnar, being a like-minded monarchy and all of that stuff, blah, blah, blah, is a big reason why there were so many Cygnar armies in that tournament. (Hey, don't you go confusing this argument with "facts" and "logic" - I know I'm right!) Beyond that the skewed initial numbers and small sample size are *somewhat* reflected in the end results, but the fact that Cygnar's and Cryx's representation in the final 16 more than doubled on a percentage basis is... unusual. I personally wouldn't draw any significant conclusions out of just this tournament simply because of the small sample size. I would want to see a lot more tournaments with a lot more discrete players (as opposed to the same players over and over) before drawing any conclusions beyond interference from European monarchies. After all: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Your number are way off. For example there was a Ret player in the championship finals, where did he go in your summary? Looks like you just counted players in one of the qualifiers. There are 3 unlisted, guessing Ret player was one of them.
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Post by Gaston on Aug 7, 2017 10:48:43 GMT
Moar data lol The data we do have clearly points to some serious flaws. I really thought with WIll P on board PP would have reacted more quickly and fairly to meta changing models. Will is a Development Assistant.
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Post by flamigant on Aug 7, 2017 10:57:15 GMT
Moar data lol The data we do have clearly points to some serious flaws. I really thought with WIll P on board PP would have reacted more quickly and fairly to meta changing models. Will is a Development Assistant. And as a "Professional" player/ Develepment Assistant he of all should have know how things play out. I can't blame the Dev's for that because they do not play WAAC tourney's.
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Aug 7, 2017 10:59:18 GMT
Cryx wins stuff and plays Lich2 with ton of Banes or Denny1 with shooting things. Cygnar wins stuff and plays Haley2.
"All new war"
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Post by skittles on Aug 7, 2017 11:22:34 GMT
Moar data lol The data we do have clearly points to some serious flaws. I really thought with WIll P on board PP would have reacted more quickly and fairly to meta changing models. Yes, and after three months of straight changes this spring, apparently sales started to drop since no one was willing to buy stuff that would randomly change.
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Post by Korianneder on Aug 7, 2017 11:57:22 GMT
Moar data lol The data we do have clearly points to some serious flaws. I really thought with WIll P on board PP would have reacted more quickly and fairly to meta changing models. Yes, and after three months of straight changes this spring, apparently sales started to drop since no one was willing to buy stuff that would randomly change. Do you have proof of this somewhere? Because most businesses, Privateer Press included, are pretty tight lipped when it comes to sales figures.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 7, 2017 13:05:43 GMT
Cryx wins stuff and plays Lich2 with ton of Banes or Denny1 with shooting things. Cygnar wins stuff and plays Haley2. "All new war" At least you don't see Lich 2 bile thralls anymore! small mercies eh....
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Post by Lord_Randall on Aug 7, 2017 14:37:07 GMT
Your number are way off. For example there was a Ret player in the championship finals, where did he go in your summary? Looks like you just counted players in one of the qualifiers. There are 3 unlisted, guessing Ret player was one of them. 1 retry, 2 grimkin
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 7, 2017 15:11:16 GMT
Nah, people don't tech against popular factions, otherwise cygnar would have been teched against in mid mk 2 where cygnar was at a low point. They tech against either: 1.What is talked about most in the game. 2. People that they know will show up to this tournament. In this case many did tech for Cygnar. But the more popular option is 'if you can't beat them join them'. Everyone knew what was going to dominate this tournament, cryx and cygnar, that was not news to anyone. Everyone did their best to prepare for it. But this is still the result. A friend of mine didn't like his chances so he borrowed 2 lists of CoC to even stand a chance. So don't try to brush aside peoples effort to actually counter cryx and cygnar cause they do. Also, don't try to pin this all on the cavalry. That is just misleading trying to make it look like a minor nerf to them will fix anything. Cygnar just got handed one of the best, if not the best, battle engine of them all and that more than makes up for that nerf. I know the Storm Strider is a very good BE. But is it actually the best? All battle engines seem pretty strong now.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 7, 2017 15:13:43 GMT
In this case many did tech for Cygnar. But the more popular option is 'if you can't beat them join them'. Everyone knew what was going to dominate this tournament, cryx and cygnar, that was not news to anyone. Everyone did their best to prepare for it. But this is still the result. A friend of mine didn't like his chances so he borrowed 2 lists of CoC to even stand a chance. So don't try to brush aside peoples effort to actually counter cryx and cygnar cause they do. Also, don't try to pin this all on the cavalry. That is just misleading trying to make it look like a minor nerf to them will fix anything. Cygnar just got handed one of the best, if not the best, battle engine of them all and that more than makes up for that nerf. I know the Storm Strider is a very good BE. But is it actually the best? All battle engines seem pretty strong now. Almost certainly not.
The AFG and TEP are clearly ahead of it.
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