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Post by Aegis on Aug 7, 2017 0:19:17 GMT
A reminder its the only nerf that has come with a buff. Cygnar is treated with baby gloves. I may agree that they could have just nerfed them without any compensation, but luckly the compensation isn't at all that big, and in the end just manages to keep their melee damage similar to the old one, without really improving it (they gained 1 pow on the melee attack, but lost 1 rat and 2 pow on the assault shot, making it pretty much even on the melee side, while the ranged part was quite a lot nerfed, rightfully).
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 7, 2017 0:27:59 GMT
Looking at it more carefully, there were 16 players involved, 6 of them played Cygnar and 5 of them played Cryx, with only little repreasentation of other factions (2x Khador and 1x Mercs, Retri and Legion). With those numbers, it is pretty obvious that the top 10 is filled with Cryx and Cygnar(tough the fact that all Cryx players managed to get into is interesting). Also, Jarle Svendrud is the national champion of the area since years, so again, that he won isn't a big surprise. I still think that Lances nerf can't come soon enough, but its true that is difficult to get meaningful data from a tournament so little and with a partecipation so skewed toward 2 factions. Again: champions format, drawn from the top 16 of the previous event. The fact that the top 16 contained so many Cryx and Cygnar players is itself indicative of the power level of those two factions.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 7, 2017 0:30:34 GMT
They actually hit harder in melee continously now.
Id say at wirst its an equal tradeoff.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 7, 2017 0:34:10 GMT
They actually hit harder in melee continously now. Id say at wirst its an equal tradeoff. So their assault shots losing access to +2 dmg is to be ignored?
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Post by Aegis on Aug 7, 2017 0:38:23 GMT
They actually hit harder in melee continously now. Id say at wirst its an equal tradeoff. No they don't. They have gained 1 pow with the melee strike, but they have assault, so the overal melee damage looks like that: Old Stormlances charge: POW 15+3d6 attack + RAT 7 POW 14 assault attack + 2 e-leaps New Stormlances charge: POW 16+3d6 attack + RAT 6 POW 12 assault shot + 1 e-leap Make calculations and you see that the new Stormlances do equal or less damage in melee against all but the most extreme ARMs, and now they do 1 e-leap instead of 2 in charge. The thing becomes even more evident if you add electric synergy like Firefly. New Stormlances do pretty much the same (or even less) damage in melee, while being a lot less powerful on range (to the point to not being that good at range at all... They are not worthy skirmishers anymore for the points). Its a straight nerf, not an equal tradeoff. A totally deserved and necessary nerf, but let's call it for what is it.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 7, 2017 0:41:40 GMT
They actually hit harder in melee continously now. Id say at wirst its an equal tradeoff. So their assault shots losing access to +2 dmg is to be ignored? No I said its an equal tradeoff. A ranged shot isnt boosted, so against high armor targets the damage is low. Higher damage on a charge garuntees better results. Not saying it aint nothing, but you recieved the most lightest of nerfs and got a nice candy bar on top.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 7, 2017 0:48:36 GMT
So their assault shots losing access to +2 dmg is to be ignored? No I said its an equal tradeoff. A ranged shot isnt boosted, so against high armor targets the damage is low. Higher damage on a charge garuntees better results. Not saying it aint nothing, but you recieved the most lightest of nerfs and got a nice candy bar on top. So now -1 RAT, -2 POW and losing E-Leap is "the most lightest of nerfs"? Want a "light" nerf like that for WG rocketeers? The nerf on the ranged part is pretty big, and the buff on melee is there only to not ALSO make their melee worse. The buff on the melee POW starts to get slightly relevant just against ARM 22+ (24+ if we also consider firefly), and even in those rare cases, are you sure that 1 extra damage is worth 1 less e-leap on charge? I'm not. Do not let you be blinded by the fact that they got a plus in the middle of many minus... That plus is there only to not make them ALSO worse at melee, but it doesn't improve them, it just keeps their melee at the same level as it was. Again, not complaining. It was a totally deserved nerf that I was calling for since months, but let's not picture it as something different from what it is just to say "Cygnar gets it better".
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Post by pangurban on Aug 7, 2017 1:15:22 GMT
Looking at it more carefully, there were 16 players involved, 6 of them played Cygnar and 5 of them played Cryx, with only little repreasentation of other factions (2x Khador and 1x Mercs, Retri and Legion). With those numbers, it is pretty obvious that the top 10 is filled with Cryx and Cygnar(tough the fact that all Cryx players managed to get into is interesting). Also, Jarle Svendrud is the national champion of the area since years, so again, that he won isn't a big surprise. I still think that Lances nerf can't come soon enough, but its true that is difficult to get meaningful data from a tournament so little and with a partecipation so skewed toward 2 factions. More info could be gleaned from the qualifying events, if available.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Aug 7, 2017 1:16:35 GMT
Well when going into mk3 the Rockets lost take up, and kovnik joe lost the ability to have his speeches effect himself (which makes some sense to me). Then he got further nerfed in the fact that his one speech went from a boosted attack roll to a +2. So the Rockets have been nerfed.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Aug 7, 2017 1:16:49 GMT
Nerf storm lances, go ahead. They have been out of vogue for a while now.
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Post by pangurban on Aug 7, 2017 1:20:02 GMT
Nerf storm lances, go ahead. They have been out of vogue for a while now. That's another point. Even considering the nerf to Lances as correct, it's not going to do much to pairings that don't use them - which are currently plentiful in Cygnar (L&L IG winner: Lances in one of three lists; L&L Masters runner up and third place: no Lances at all). Same with Cryx, although for now at least it's a lot harder for them to replace Ghost Fleet with an equally good other option.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Aug 7, 2017 1:38:14 GMT
Which does seem to put an end to the "Cygnar players will take Storm Lances forever because they kill everything teivially" argument.
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Post by pangurban on Aug 7, 2017 1:45:36 GMT
Which does seem to put an end to the "Cygnar players will take Storm Lances forever because they kill everything teivially" argument. And begs the question why it was a good idea to give them even better stuff before nerfing the Lances...
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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 7, 2017 1:50:05 GMT
This is not what's happening in my area at all. Though we don't have much Cryx. But despite having a lot of Cygnar it isn't that strong. I have a theory that where there are more Cryx people it's indeed very oppressive and Cygnar is one of the better factions against it so Cygnar placings are mostly result of Cryx being back as the meta boogeyman.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Aug 7, 2017 1:51:40 GMT
Which does seem to put an end to the "Cygnar players will take Storm Lances forever because they kill everything teivially" argument. And begs the question why it was a good idea to give them even better stuff before nerfing the Lances... They weren't? They had their damage nerfed and electroleap pulled off their guns and their guns lost accuracy.
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