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Post by josephkerr on Aug 6, 2017 20:20:24 GMT
Has the Storm Lance nerf gone through yet? I feel like encouraging players to run more infantry without them all dying to electro leaps is going to change player options into both factions.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 6, 2017 20:20:37 GMT
I think we all know the solution here.
We better nerf Khador.
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 6, 2017 20:21:51 GMT
I think we all know the solution here. We better nerf Khador. This seems fine and fair and I have a 15 page essay id like to share...
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 6, 2017 20:28:48 GMT
Has the Storm Lance nerf gone through yet? I feel like encouraging players to run more infantry without them all dying to electro leaps is going to change player options into both factions. It has not. My current prediction is that the errata will release whenever they drop the cards for the new Cygnar trencher models, but who knows. I don't think more infantry is a solution to Ghost fleet, though. The counters to the list are ridiculously specific, and are something most factions only have access to in a very few ways.
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 6, 2017 20:32:47 GMT
Has the Storm Lance nerf gone through yet? I feel like encouraging players to run more infantry without them all dying to electro leaps is going to change player options into both factions. I don't think more infantry is a solution to Ghost fleet, though. The counters to the list are ridiculously specific, and are something most factions only have access to in a very few ways. Definitely true, but theres an ocean of unused single wound infantry across mk3 that is only good for killing other single wound infantry that would really help some lists chew through the infantry in ghost fleet. One reason that match up is an auto lose sometimes is a lack of attacks to effectively clear infantry. Every time a destroyer scatters into nothing Khador has to consider their ability to win against Ghost Fleet has gone way down. Still does nothing for lack of magic weapons or rfp tho, u r correct.
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Post by garou on Aug 6, 2017 20:38:50 GMT
Has the Storm Lance nerf gone through yet? I feel like encouraging players to run more infantry without them all dying to electro leaps is going to change player options into both factions. Considering Haley2 now run double Storm Strider + colossal + firefly + thorn i would say they leap plenty.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 6, 2017 20:41:24 GMT
And I disagree. I think any committed player who has 2 well tuned lists that he/she has practiced a considerable amount has a chance to win an event. I don't think we need to be busting out the nerf bat every time we see tournament results for a 16 player event. How many events have we seen Ghost Fleet win/take a substantial number of of the top spots at? It's not insubstantial. The list is brutal, requires specific counters (which some factions don't have good access to) and has a good chance of winning into those counters - all the hallmarks of a problem list. Weighing that against your 'feeling' that everyone had a chance...no. Weren't you ALSO one of the people that was right up there claiming that Storm Lances were fine and didn't need any changes? I seem to remember you were, and if so I honestly don't have a lot of respect for your 'feelings' about game balance. Finally, it's not a 'single' 16 player event. It's the top 16 players from a previous tournament in the final rounds. And whatever you think of the Iron Moot, L&L certainly wasn't a small tournament. I never said that Lances were fine. I said they needed to lose eLeap on one or the other and go down do Def12. I'm also in the boat that Ghost fleet's days are numbered. I have an answer in my Ret ( competitive) pairing and in my Merc(casual) pairing. Please don't point at people, it's rude.
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 6, 2017 20:54:28 GMT
Has the Storm Lance nerf gone through yet? I feel like encouraging players to run more infantry without them all dying to electro leaps is going to change player options into both factions. Considering Haley2 now run double Storm Strider + colossal + firefly + thorn i would say they leap plenty. I think that sounds strong into armor, but maybe not Gaspy2 Dark Host. Theres a lot of 30+ infantry armies that could play into that. Def 14+, arm 18+ are both powerful and common.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 6, 2017 21:00:12 GMT
How many events have we seen Ghost Fleet win/take a substantial number of of the top spots at? It's not insubstantial. The list is brutal, requires specific counters (which some factions don't have good access to) and has a good chance of winning into those counters - all the hallmarks of a problem list. Weighing that against your 'feeling' that everyone had a chance...no. Weren't you ALSO one of the people that was right up there claiming that Storm Lances were fine and didn't need any changes? I seem to remember you were, and if so I honestly don't have a lot of respect for your 'feelings' about game balance. Finally, it's not a 'single' 16 player event. It's the top 16 players from a previous tournament in the final rounds. And whatever you think of the Iron Moot, L&L certainly wasn't a small tournament. I never said that Lances were fine. I said they needed to lose eLeap on one or the other and go down do Def12. I'm also in the boat that Ghost fleet's days are numbered. I have an answer in my Ret ( competitive) pairing and in my Merc(casual) pairing. Please don't point at people, it's rude. I apologize. So many Cygnar players saying they were fine, I seem to have lost track. And yes, Ret is a faction that can answer ghost fleet. It can so with one theme and one caster, and it's still one of the better-off factions against the fleet (because both Ossyan and Issyria - in shadows - are good lists with other good matchups.) Khador and Cygnar have...less of a good time, as do many of the hordes factions (Circle being the main exception.) I don't know about you, but I personally dislike matchups that force extremely specific casters/lists into pairings just to answer them. It's the definition of meta-warping, and it's the core of my objection to Kara Sloan as well.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 6, 2017 21:35:46 GMT
I never said that Lances were fine. I said they needed to lose eLeap on one or the other and go down do Def12. I'm also in the boat that Ghost fleet's days are numbered. I have an answer in my Ret ( competitive) pairing and in my Merc(casual) pairing. Please don't point at people, it's rude. I apologize. So many Cygnar players saying they were fine, I seem to have lost track. And yes, Ret is a faction that can answer ghost fleet. It can so with one theme and one caster, and it's still one of the better-off factions against the fleet (because both Ossyan and Issyria - in shadows - are good lists with other good matchups.) Khador and Cygnar have...less of a good time, as do many of the hordes factions (Circle being the main exception.) I don't know about you, but I personally dislike matchups that force extremely specific casters/lists into pairings just to answer them. It's the definition of meta-warping, and it's the core of my objection to Kara Sloan as well. I said I think Haley2 is fine, and I stand my ground in that regard. I don't mind a list that not every faction has an answer to, but if the counters are strong enough it doesn't really matter. Issy Shadows is a really good list. I've had to play into it with both my factions. Band of Heroes with the the CID champs and Madrak1 willl be a really good counter, Caine3 is a really good counter... There's enough strong counters to Denny1 Ghost fleet to keep it from completely owning the Meta. As more themes and releases come out I expect Ghost fleet to slowly lose some steam. It will still be a viable list in a pairing, but it won't give you a 90% chance at a win vs most of the game.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 6, 2017 23:46:59 GMT
Please Lances nerf come soon... They should have nerfed them 8 months ago when people asked for them, and every extra month is a month too much...
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Post by pangurban on Aug 6, 2017 23:50:38 GMT
Please Lances nerf come soon... They should have nerfed them 8 months ago when people asked for them, and every extra month is a month too much... On the one hand, sure, if it deserves a nerf it deserves it now. On the other hand, please don't start with monthly errata.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 6, 2017 23:53:03 GMT
Please Lances nerf come soon... They should have nerfed them 8 months ago when people asked for them, and every extra month is a month too much... On the one hand, sure, if it deserves a nerf it deserves it now. On the other hand, please don't start with monthly errata. We had a big errata at that time (the one that nerfed Una2). They should have nerfed them at that time, but probably wanted to grab a few more money from cygnar players before nerfing them.
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Post by pangurban on Aug 6, 2017 23:56:19 GMT
On the one hand, sure, if it deserves a nerf it deserves it now. On the other hand, please don't start with monthly errata. We had a big errata at that time (the one that nerfed Una2). They should have nerfed them at that time, but probably wanted to grab a few more money from cygnar players before nerfing them. Or, since they were playing around with the idea of CID at the time, maybe they thought it better to wait. Regardless, I try to avoid dwelling on the past. It's done, and we can't turn it back. Situation as is, I'm asking not to flood us with frequent errata.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 7, 2017 0:05:31 GMT
A reminder its the only nerf that has come with a buff.
Cygnar is treated with baby gloves.
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