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Post by Netherby on Aug 3, 2017 7:16:28 GMT
I really like OW1. She certainly isn't bad, as a couple of us have been saying for months >_>
I'm not sure if she is competitive though. I'v been playing her a bit and struggling (not losing, but I'm pretty decent at this game these days). I don't really feel like she super wants to be in any of the current themes. WGK isn't bad for her, but I feel like she wants some things that she can't take in any of the themes we have.
I think I need to start trying MoWs...
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Post by benjamini on Aug 3, 2017 14:46:48 GMT
I take her to Steamroller's quite frequently, as she is far and away my favourite character in the setting - and that encourages me to try and succeed with her. (I might even pair Old Witch 1 and 2 when the latter is released!)
A few months ago some of us were theorymachining taking Shockies with her a while back, but I never got around to trying it. Though I likely will when the theme drops (if the MOW theme ever drops...), and they were reporting some success. I've been taking a bit of a detour into Skorne lately after a journeyman, but after reporting to my local greylord covenant for reeducation, I am looking forward to continuing my experiments!
In my own experience, I usually play her in Winter Guard Kommand... though as a bit of an oddball, I took her to the South Ontario Open a while back out of theme with some doom reavers and a sniper boat and had quite a bit of success. I wonder how she'd do with Jaws of the Wolf now that Forge Seers are out... hmmm...
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 3, 2017 16:16:55 GMT
More generally, a Juggernaut struggles against the top end ARM models. A Centurion, even without Arcane Shield, is tough to deal with. ARM buffs can be a serious problem, leading to a Juggernaut failing to take out any key systems on a jack, leaving the retaliation open. I'm not saying the Juggernaut is bad at dealing with ARM (far from it!), but it also isn't an auto success. If the rest of the list can't capitalise on the damage the Juggernaut does, then it can still struggle with ARM cracking. So Try Malakov. Hes not that expensive an investment, hes very protectable, and he takes the over the top jugger into a whole new league of over the top. Or take him with the Behemoth. Quite expensive but it can take out just about anything.
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Aug 3, 2017 20:23:18 GMT
I made the shocktroopers experiment, didn't go so well. I think it was marginally better in mk2 with seals secret giving concealment so you were able to skyrocket the shockies def to high levels thanks to ternions clouds.
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Post by Netherby on Aug 4, 2017 3:05:25 GMT
My normal reaction is that MoWs are too slow for an OW1 list, but I think I need to try it some more. Iron Flesh and Weald Secrets are both useful buffs for them.
With the greater number of terrain in SR2017 and the guidelines about LoS blocking pieces, Murder of Crows should be very powerful in a lot of situations.
I would be interested to hear what lists people have tried running and how they have performed with her. I think I might need to start moving away from my staple lists.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 4, 2017 13:17:57 GMT
I'll be playing her in a couple games on Monday. Probably one with a weird out of theme list involving shockies, and once into Jaws of the Wolf. Will let you guys know how they go!
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 7, 2017 17:22:01 GMT
[nip] Smithers: Vlad3 in a Legion of Steel theme force? Mr. Burns: Bite your tongue young man! Smithers: Oh, I don't know sir, properly painted I'm sure it would look quite dashing on the table. Mr. Burns: Don't you give into their shenanigans! Smithers: Don't worry, sir, I will always remain faithful to you. What do you propose we do. Mr. Burns: Smithers, release the hounds! Smither: Right away, sir! *looks at my Vlad 3 berserker + uhlan list But it's fun... I know I'm late to the party. But Old witch seems like a ton of fun and my wife is wanting to get a list going. my issue is she wants it to be a two stage engagement. So say - AD line hits first, then feat, then the opponent has to deal with the sitting still or taking the pow 14. Which infantry is more common in my lists than beast and our store is starting to see more as well. So I'm just going to keep reading this and take what I can from it.
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Post by eaves003 on Aug 10, 2017 12:43:08 GMT
I posted this a while back, after having some success in SR 2016.
Advanced move on 4 h.jacks-apparition-run. (Kodiak tramples to drop cloud) Run scrapy, Weald Secrets then feat. this stops all infantry models (except ghost fleet) and sometimes hurts the jacks/beasts too. With the theme OW can feat threat 35inchs up the board. This has shut down lots of lists.
Khador - Old Witch 1
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand 1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18 - Scrapjack - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Marauder - PC: 10 - Marauder - PC: 10
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 4 Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 5
THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
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Post by eaves003 on Aug 10, 2017 12:44:33 GMT
She is a really fun Caster to play. As she plays very differently to all the other Khador Casters
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Post by Netherby on Aug 10, 2017 17:33:49 GMT
The big issue is that her feat is currently out of the meta. I wish we could get her looked at with some changes to the feat such that it is meaningful against jack/beast/armour spam and also increase her WJ allowance.
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 10, 2017 18:13:22 GMT
If her feat knocked down non warrior models it would be much better.
Pow14 is often enough to knock down warjacks.
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Post by auraco on Aug 10, 2017 19:13:32 GMT
If her feat knocked down non warrior models it would be much better. Pow14 is often enough to knock down warjacks. Just give it back the no charge or power attack line from the mk2 feat and I'd be ok with that.
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Post by Netherby on Aug 10, 2017 19:58:54 GMT
Knocking down everything would certainly help. Power 14 is high enough to at least give most things pause if it would knock them down. It should also cause magical damage No charges or special attacks would also go a long way towards making it less useless. In its current state though, 90% of games it has no use.
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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 11, 2017 14:55:42 GMT
I've played OW 1 a couple times, hopefully going to get more games in this weekend. Netherby, why do you say her feat doesn't fit the meta? Since SR17 I feel there has been a pretty good recursion of infantry?. Depending on the scenario itself her feat could allow her to play a strong scenario game. If anything should change, knockdown on damaged warnouns would be nice. Also magic damage for the feat. With her strong assassination and troop clearin potential (20" non-linear threat range), im not sure too many WJ are needed. If they out her in line with B3, 22, it would help and maybe be too much. She brings a lot to the table for attrition/scenario/assassination. Definitely underused, She might be in my pairing for the next tournament i attend.
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Post by Netherby on Aug 12, 2017 1:36:02 GMT
So most lists these days are skewed towards high armour and boxes. This usually comes in the form of large battle groups or multi wound models that can achieve a high armour. That is the meta. Sure there are a small number of exceptions to that, but not many.
Her feat is close to completely useless into a large battle group list, which is probably close to half the match ups you're likely to get. High armour, multi box infantry will be slowed by the feat assuming they aren't steady. But it will not prevent them from running to contest when needed as it will not kill them.
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