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Post by ravenfire_guest on Jul 31, 2017 11:00:40 GMT
Why is charging a problem? GF threat is 9.5 inch of warrior models. With Fenns you threat 13 inch (without triggering vengeance) Add a sorcerer to remove enemy upkeep's in case you get crippling grasp on the unit. I have tried Kriel Company, but our shooting is way too low on rat to make it a safe bet. I found out that most of the time you hit 50% of the time, get 90% kill and GF puts back at least 2 models. 10 attacks will get you 5-6 hits, 4-5 kills and GF puts back 2 minimal. So with your entire unit activation you get 2-3 dead bodies, which still can be brought back next round. Charge in Fenns (or something else under BOH). first wave can maybe get 4-5 models in range. +2 from fell caller to hit makes them mat 8 vs.def 13. 3-4 models get hit and die and stay dead. (note: math is not my strong suit If you take madrak2 you can surf with overtake and berserk to the leader (at least try and RFP the leader and just kill the rest. It can go wrong, but i think it is a safer bet. And no one will drop mass infantry into madrak2 and he can handle 4-5 heavies with his semi weapon master units. Kriel (baring the MTK lists) will have a lot of difficulty with arm lists. So in list selection you will get into a form of list chicken for the ARM vs shooting etc choices. If you take a POD gunny list, GF will probably not see the table since you still can try to RFP at range.
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Post by robobengt on Jul 31, 2017 11:10:19 GMT
B/C fenns won't have a good line to that many members of one unit of revenant. They will mix them up and there will be ghosts. Then, when you've gotten the charge, Denny will feat, remove all the fenns, put CG on whatever unit can threaten her models next turn and continue destroying stuff. Without access to ranged magical weapons, this is when they'll start charging in their ghosts creating new ones, and the Hellslinger can almost wipe an entire unit of the board himself. Not counting fenns or possibly long riders, your stuff will threaten 9/10 or 7/8 on feat and 5/6 when grasped. If you are only running fenns, then this is ok, but you'll probably be bringing multiwounds as well for the free points, and those guys while be charged to death. Especially with the riflemen destroying the stone every turn.
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Post by Sander on Jul 31, 2017 12:21:40 GMT
Again, robobengt speaks the truth.
No competetive Ghost Fleet player will ever allow you to hit 5 models with Fennblades in 1 turn. Most of the time its the 3 guns in front, rest of the squad in the back. Not even Madrak2 feat will get you there. Some people think it kills a whole unit - but overtake is immensely overrated. It might against bad players, but the rest of the time it's not very good.
And your math is off, at least in case of Grim2 matchup: His feat gives +2 rat to some models, and he also has Mortality for when you absolutely need to hit something. Highwaymen have combined ranged attack. Fire eaters can get boosted sprays. It's not as bad as you describe ravenfire.
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Post by Trollock on Jul 31, 2017 13:14:09 GMT
Dozer threats 22". Can they really keep their leaders outside 22" and still be relevant? Madrak 2 sounds like a fine choice too though. How did you come by 22 inch? Speed 5 and rush is 21 inch. ... Ah, you seem to have forgotten about Dual attack my friend. You Trample 8", then shoot
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Jul 31, 2017 13:32:14 GMT
Ah yes the trample Highwaymen will get shot of the table before they can do anything. The stalkers will eat the fire eaters or the highwaymen with ease. My solution is hard, Your solution is also hard to pull off. I have even seen a calandra ee variation do it But maybe the solution is a more combined army of some ranged and some melee options in boh with gunny.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jul 31, 2017 17:18:55 GMT
Dozer threats 22". Can they really keep their leaders outside 22" and still be relevant? Madrak 2 sounds like a fine choice too though. How did you come by 22 inch? Speed 5 and rush is 21 inch. But then you have moved. His rat will be 2 due to inaccurate. He can up this to rat 4 with his animus. Then you need at least 8's to hit. Thus boosting is required. That is a lot of resources to spend. Also in the current game there is a lot more terrain. Then you may be confronted with either los blocking terrain or terrain granting cover. That will reduce the probability of success also. It's actually 24 inches with rush (22 without). Boosting to hit with Lucky Shot up you have a 83.8% chance of hitting. Once you miss, you have a 55.56% chance of the scatter still hitting due to being able to re-roll scatter distance. Combine these two and you have just under a 93% chance to get the target. Even if they have cover you still have a ~73% chance of catching them. If you end up not needing rush, that's a grand total of 3 fury and one 18 point model, to cripple a 15 point unit (who probably can't kill him with all his boxes and arm 21).
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 31, 2017 21:24:59 GMT
I haven't read anyone suggesting Explosivo on a Battle Wagon or the M. King. Would that not give two sprays with every hit being rfp? Plus the wagons main gun blasting them back to he'll as well...
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Post by Trollock on Jul 31, 2017 21:54:41 GMT
The MK is a very good target for explosivo, though he has to commit heavily to get to a unit leader. he might die afterwards, though the feat can save him. He will be totally gimped basically the whole game though cause of crippling grasp, but he is still good. My current list has a MK + Dozer for the battle group. The WW is a much worse option imo. You get a long threat range, BUT you rely on hitting with RAT 5 (possibly 7 with Bank Shot) and that is just not reliable enough imo. If you miss that one shot, things will start going south
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jul 31, 2017 22:18:01 GMT
The MK is a very good target for explosivo, though he has to commit heavily to get to a unit leader. he might die afterwards, though the feat can save him. He will be totally gimped basically the whole game though cause of crippling grasp, but he is still good. My current list has a MK + Dozer for the battle group. The WW is a much worse option imo. You get a long threat range, BUT you rely on hitting with RAT 5 (possibly 7 with Bank Shot) and that is just not reliable enough imo. If you miss that one shot, things will start going south Well to be fair, with a lucky shot-ed WW, you have a 91.66% chance of hitting directly OR catching them with blast assuming they were the target. With blast of pow 9 you also have a 91.66% chance of killing when you hit a blast. That means if you can target it directly, before cover or concealment you have just over an 84% chance of blowing him up.
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Post by robobengt on Aug 1, 2017 4:59:40 GMT
The MK is a very good target for explosivo, though he has to commit heavily to get to a unit leader. he might die afterwards, though the feat can save him. He will be totally gimped basically the whole game though cause of crippling grasp, but he is still good. My current list has a MK + Dozer for the battle group. The WW is a much worse option imo. You get a long threat range, BUT you rely on hitting with RAT 5 (possibly 7 with Bank Shot) and that is just not reliable enough imo. If you miss that one shot, things will start going south Gunnbjörn's feat won't help the mountain king survive after you commit him. He'll either be destroyed beeing charged at arm 16, or you'll be SPD 1 for a turn and he'll kill you after. The WW with explosivo is horrible for those reasons though. If you're not going for the RFP then the wagon is fine since a 5" AOE will probably clip several dudes.
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Post by grimgor on Aug 1, 2017 6:47:58 GMT
And dont you think kolgrima is a good drop in PoD ? Feat is denying shooting too and have mulg with arcane vortex and you have owl's Wlsdom against parasite and crippling grasp. It seems to be a nice drop too
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 1, 2017 7:24:31 GMT
And dont you think kolgrima is a good drop in PoD ? Feat is denying shooting too and have mulg with arcane vortex and you have owl's Wlsdom against parasite and crippling grasp. It seems to be a nice drop too It's the lack of RFP which is the problem. Other than that it's an excellent cryx drop.
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Post by robobengt on Aug 1, 2017 8:15:51 GMT
This maybe works? It depends on whether you could destroy enough models each turn to make sure Kolgrimma herself doesn't die. She has at least a small chance at assassination on Denny as well.
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Post by Trollock on Aug 1, 2017 10:00:45 GMT
The MK is a very good target for explosivo, though he has to commit heavily to get to a unit leader. he might die afterwards, though the feat can save him. He will be totally gimped basically the whole game though cause of crippling grasp, but he is still good. My current list has a MK + Dozer for the battle group. The WW is a much worse option imo. You get a long threat range, BUT you rely on hitting with RAT 5 (possibly 7 with Bank Shot) and that is just not reliable enough imo. If you miss that one shot, things will start going south Well to be fair, with a lucky shot-ed WW, you have a 91.66% chance of hitting directly OR catching them with blast assuming they were the target. With blast of pow 9 you also have a 91.66% chance of killing when you hit a blast. That means if you can target it directly, before cover or concealment you have just over an 84% chance of blowing him up. Oh that is right. The fact that it is aoe 5 rather than 4 drastically increases the chance of scattering and hitting. BUT explosivo will only RFP on a direct hit, so it is not super helpful...:-(
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Post by robobengt on Aug 1, 2017 11:35:37 GMT
Since the WW can charge through a bunch of models, this means it's harder for him to hide his anchor so it's possible (even if not probable) that he can help you get to the anchor, thus removing the unit entirely. If you bring enough attacks to help it.
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