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Post by grabsnikk on Aug 2, 2017 18:00:10 GMT
It sure does.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 2, 2017 18:58:28 GMT
I think a better question is what doesn't work against the krielstone haha has to be one of the most countable leader models in the game right now
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 3, 2017 7:09:46 GMT
Speaking as a Cryx player (please don't kill me), since everybody throws the kitchen sink at Ghost Fleet, I have some experience with counter lists.
There are 2 main ways to deal with the recursion: RFP/control the Leaders (don't forget Blackbane) or simply kill so many that they constantly have to reset to their anchor model (you can ignore the rifles for this purpose as they can't be promoted and will probably be out of formation with the anchor model, rendering them useless).
An extension on the first option would be to simply RFP everything and for this BoH is great. I would suggest 1-2 min units of Warders, so the ranged assassination is off the table, as well as to protect key models. I've played against a Madrak 3 list with some Fennblades, bunch of Warders and some Champions that worked great for this. The caster is basically immune to assassination and you have lots of dudes to stop the arc nodes from running through. High ARM and/or DEF also helps against the pirates, because non-charging pirates will be very unlikely to kill, even with debuffs. Madrak 1 post CID should also be pretty good.
Grim 2(?) with loads of guns can put out the volume of attacks required to keep the Pirates in check as well as threaten Denny; if you take away her Stealth, she's only 16/14 and she doesn't usually camp a lot. Gunnbjorn with a Glacier King and/or a Bomber or 2 should be able to take out some Leaders quite easily. Really beware of the counter feat on your Gargantuan though. Stuff tends to die when Revenants charge it at -5 or -7 armour. Also be sure to lob a shot at Blackbane, he has no protection other than Incorporeal and if you take away the Ghost Raiders's main gimmick, they tend to suck.
The Stone should generally be pretty safe, even if he dies, you can always Self-Sacrifice, or let it die if it doesn't matter much to save your other models. Just beware of the Stalkers, since it can turn of healing. It will have a 13" threat, but it's melee, so if you can block off the first 7" somehow, you should be pretty safe.
Splash in some magic hate and at least 1 magical weapon to kill Blackbane. If Mulg will be allowed in more themes, that would be awesome for you, because a heavy with default magical weapon is the best bet to handle the Wraith Engine, and he brings his own magic hate.
This is just from experience, I don't know the faction well enough to go into too much theory crafting.
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Post by robobengt on Aug 3, 2017 8:15:51 GMT
This sounds a lot like my experience. The issue with bringing the volume of attacks required that you speak of is that it's incredibly hard to do fast enough for the GF player not to just win on scenario.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 3, 2017 8:20:24 GMT
On the MoM podcast this week. Aaron Wale suggested that a strong assassination threat might be the way to go instead of rfp.
That makes Grim2, Grissel2 and Grim1 excellent choices.
It would also make Kolgrima a good option when she comes out. It's especially good as we can build all of these good into Dark Host.
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Robbe
Light Addition
Posts: 65
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Post by Robbe on Aug 3, 2017 8:56:25 GMT
I want to make Grim2 great again for this entire year, but struggle. Went back to netlisting until a good list builder designs a list
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 3, 2017 9:01:08 GMT
This sounds a lot like my experience. The issue with bringing the volume of attacks required that you speak of is that it's incredibly hard to do fast enough for the GF player not to just win on scenario. It's doable if you just ignore the rifles to pop the Leader back to the anchor model, putting the rifles out of command. Highwaymen with CRA and 2 attacks each can easily kill 1 Pirate each, Bushwackers can kill a bunch at long range, Bombers kill a lot, as do Fire Eaters (but they die to retaliation), Sluggers are pretty decent as well. Also keep in mind that if you kill everything besides the anchor and he puts models back the next turn, he's basically forced to make 1 a Grunt to use as the new anchor. If he doesn't and only has the Leader and rifles, you can now kill the whole unit. If he doesn't, that's 1 less rifle to deal with. Arcaux is also correct, threatening the caster (Denny 1 in 80% of cases) is a very good way for circumventing her feat because she has to play away from the action. The above casters are hence pretty legit, though you might sometimes have to sacrifice the Stone to take away Stealth. I want to make Grim2 great again for this entire year, but struggle. Went back to netlisting until a good list builder designs a list I recently played against something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0DcxfmjqeC6E0qfqeB09Trollbloods Army - 68 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company !!! Your army contains a CID entry. (Grim 2) Hunters Grim [+25] - Glacier King [35] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Braylen Wanderheart, Trollkin Outlaw [0(5)] Pyg Burrowers (max) [13] Pyg Bushwhackers (max) [15] - Pyg Bushwhacker Officer & Mortar [5] Trollkin Highwaymen (max) [15] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10] Don't remember the last points, so fill to taste. Burrowers didn't Burrow, they just served as mobile throw-away models to enable the feat. With all the CRA going on, you can threaten hard targets as well as infantry hordes. And with the feat, Mortality and a possible crit from the Glacier King, any caster will be pretty scared (if you get stationary off, the Sluggers kill pretty much anything).
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Post by robobengt on Aug 3, 2017 9:14:27 GMT
Yeah. Just realised I wrote "wins of scenario" when I ofc meant "wins on time". I also like bushwackers here. They should be able to get 3-4 dudes a turn. Just need to focus fire on each unit separately and keep your caster alive.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Aug 3, 2017 11:47:03 GMT
A Doomy 3 Raiders and HHH list could present quite the assassination potential with oil and fire damage as well.
The HHH would struggle against -5 arm just like a garg though. Mulg nearby to arcane vortex? That's out of theme. Hmmmm.
Edit: shoot. Can't arcane vortex all that. (Never post within 5 mins of waking up)
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Aug 3, 2017 12:30:57 GMT
A Doomy 3 Raiders and HHH list could present quite the assassination potential with oil and fire damage as well. The HHH would struggle against -5 arm just like a garg though. Mulg nearby to arcane vortex? That's out of theme. Hmmmm. Edit: shoot. Can't arcane vortex all that. (Never post within 5 mins of waking up) You can vortex the parasite and crippling grasp, and since you are playing Doomshaper, Mulg is ok. That sounds neat.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Aug 3, 2017 13:45:29 GMT
A sorcerer on the Raiders may allow them to do some serious work on the mini-feat turn, but it would be best to try to save it for the assassination attempt. Honestly now that I think about it. That's a good assassination attempt against nearly anyone. The trick would be to get the HHH within 4" of their caster so the AOE auto hits.
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