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Post by Trollock on Jul 26, 2017 9:47:36 GMT
I was working a little bit on updating the "guide to start trolls" post with respect to everything that has happened with theme forces (it was written before themes existed). Therefore i lined up all casters and ranked how well I THOUGHT they fit in to our different themes. I gave them a score of 1-5 for each theme. Then i simply summed up each casters score over the four theme forces. That number tells us something of how versatile a caster is. I also summed up the scores each caster got for all each theme. That tells us something of how applicable the theme force is in the faction. This is the results i came up with: So, according to this, new players (who want to play as many casters as possible with roughly the same models) should start with PoD or SotN. If they on the other hand want one caster who can be played in as many ways as possible, they should start with Calandra (duh?) or Gunnbjorn. Going in to how i came to each of the numbers in the table is something that will take a long time, and i will do that in the updated guide. No idea when i will get time to do it though Do you agree with my assessment?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 26, 2017 9:57:15 GMT
I feel that Ragnor with Band of Heroes might become a thing.
Especially with the stone changes so he can run a max stone and spread out more and the new champ models.
That said you have no 5 star BoH casters. I imagine this would change when they add the Runebearer (Will said he's expects it to be added at some point)
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Post by Trollock on Jul 26, 2017 11:18:26 GMT
Yeah. The lack of a runebearer is a big reason why i do not think any one really likes that theme. Madrak 2 can do without the RB, but he wants to take Fennblades/Kriels and thus do not get any free points from playing in theme. Also, the semi-take down still has bad skornegy with his feat and that is a bit sad.
Mostly i think it is the fact that BoH wants you to play 60 points worth of multi wound models, and no one wants to bring that many. SotN allows you to take Champs and Long riders, and you get free points fro bringing the stone and other interesting models too. Over all, i think it overshadows BoH in a lot of ways.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 26, 2017 11:20:56 GMT
Yeah. The lack of a runebearer is a big reason why i do not think any one really likes that theme. Madrak 2 can do without the RB, but he wants to take Fennblades/Kriels and thus do not get any free points from playing in theme. Also, the semi-take down still has bad skornegy with his feat and that is a bit sad. Mostly i think it is the fact that BoH wants you to play 60 points worth of multi wound models, and no one wants to bring that many. SotN allows you to take Champs and Long riders, and you get free points fro bringing the stone and other interesting models too. Over all, i think it overshadows BoH in a lot of ways. I can definitely see that. Grissel2 plays BoH the best in my experience. She plays a good old fashioned multi wound brick, still I think if they changed it so all infantry counted towards the free solos it would help a lot.
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Post by grimgor on Jul 26, 2017 12:09:38 GMT
But SoTN dont have access to warders where BoH can. And i think SoTN don't seem to have good options against gunlines. What's your mind on this ?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 26, 2017 12:29:26 GMT
But SoTN dont have access to warders where BoH can. And i think SoTN don't seem to have good options against gunlines. What's your mind on this ? If you want to run champs against a gunline, may I suggest kolgrima?
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Jul 26, 2017 13:52:59 GMT
I think gunnbjorn should be a 4 in pod. Hè does not offer the same level of support as a Doomshaper can.
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Post by Trollock on Jul 26, 2017 15:04:08 GMT
I think gunnbjorn should be a 4 in pod. Hè does not offer the same level of support as a Doomshaper can. I actually think he does, though he plays a very different build. His Bombers are absolutely bat shit crazy. Possibly RAT 7 (bank shot) Range 12 (snipe) and two fully boosted attacks. He supports his own character beast in an incredible manner with guided fire and kill shot as well as boosted blast damage. He supports the MK like none other with guided fire and explosivo. He supports the EBDT by putting up a wall where you need it. He also gives all your beasts immunity to shooting for a turn, and that is very important in some match ups. If you play against a khador jack spam it might not matter, but against caine 3 it sure does. On top of this you have the incredible rock wall that really helps you in a heavy-on-heavy scenario. You can control space in a very fundamental way and it is especially useful on your high value targets like a heavy or a gargantuan. Sure, +4 DEF against shooting is nice, but that is only a very small part of what the wall allows you to do. Models can not stand atop it, and that is incredibly powerful even against models with pathfinder.
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Post by Trollock on Jul 26, 2017 15:05:34 GMT
But SoTN dont have access to warders where BoH can. And i think SoTN don't seem to have good options against gunlines. What's your mind on this ? That is indeed a weakness of the SotN theme. You can mitigate that by carefully picking your caster, or by picking models who are resistant to shooting naturally. BoH has more innate anti shooting tech for sure though.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 26, 2017 15:33:14 GMT
I love Band of Heroes, but for now, the only reason to run it is to beat gunlines, especially Ghost Fleet. That said, I do think I'd rate Calandra and the Grissels at 4 in Band.
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Post by Trollock on Jul 26, 2017 16:05:07 GMT
I love Band of Heroes, but for now, the only reason to run it is to beat gunlines, especially Ghost Fleet. That said, I do think I'd rate Calandra and the Grissels at 4 in Band. Grissel 1 and calandra both miss out on a super sweet runebearer though. Grissel 2 is not as bothered, but what does she really do for BoH in particular? feels like she supports things that need help hitting more than anything and BoH has high MAT in general. She can play it just fine, but that is mostly because she is awesome and has very little to do with BoH...
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 26, 2017 17:37:21 GMT
Why do you rate Horgle2 that low in BoH?
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jul 26, 2017 18:40:10 GMT
I saw a few little things here and there, but nothing glaringly off IMO.
In a few cases I saw 1s where I thought it was maybe in the 2-3 range but when there's an OBVIOUS better theme for the caster (like Madrak 2 in KC vs SotN) I understand it being a 1 elsewhere.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jul 26, 2017 19:04:06 GMT
I really like the work u invested into this list. Perhaps an overall rating of our theme forces will be interesting. Now being able to play 4 different themes is playing in theme a must have.
Perhaps with the cid coming to an end and steamroller17 and our new adr going life a overall caster rating would be interesting.
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Post by Trollock on Jul 26, 2017 20:08:09 GMT
Why do you rate Horgle2 that low in BoH? No runebearer and no real synergy with most models? Sure, there are some synergies (like champions doing two boosted attacks on the feat turn), but mostly i see no reason at all to play BoH with Horgle 2. Maybe i am missing something?
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