Post by cayterpius on Jul 24, 2017 2:21:27 GMT
PP strategy for Trolls looks to still be about tying us into a brick.
They have doubled down on the faction defining Stone with the new Elder and the Hooch Hauler follows the same design - center piece with a bubble of improved stats for other models.
3 things that concern me:
1. High cost - Faction defining 'must take' support models at high points cost. Stone and HH can now take you up to 30 points of support in order to have centralised auras that increase stats of the models around them.
Choir is cheaper. Shepherds are cheaper. Mechanics are cheaper. Beast handlers are cheaper.
2. Low stats - The rest of our models more and more appear to be designed with the idea that Stone will always be taken. We never crack ARM 18 on the basis that Stone exists. Meanwhile, we don't have any ARM increase spells on our casters (correct me if I'm wrong!). I play against Minions a fair bit and I'm constantly up against ARM 21 heavies (Carver; Batten Down the Hatches). Even if I take 9-12 points of Stone support I can only get up to ARM 20 myself. ARM 22 with EBDT but how often do you live the dream where he's parked next to an obstruction and under the aura?
Pigs can have greater ARM than Trolls and they get it from a caster instead of points being spent on support pieces. Just an example, don't get me started on ARM 20 warjacks for 10 points. Hello Khador. And if you say they are slow in order to compensate, check out how many Khador warcasters now have movement increase spells available.
3. Brick style - The nature of auras means we huddle around the Stone and now the HH. Scenario play however, requires the ability and mobility to cover several zones that are not right next to each other. Leaving the Troll player with the option to sacrifice one zone in favour of completely dominating the other, split their forces in order to cover the zones and therefore lose aura coverage, or simply go for the assassination and forget zoned scenarios altogether.
Now, I don't want this to come across as a whinge. I love Trolls and I love most of what I see in CID at the moment. Thank you PP for the new toys.
Rather than complain, I would like to have a constructive conversation and have the community share their advice on the best approach to playing our incredible faction.
Is the reality that we always take the Stone, get used to it? Is there no effective way to play without it?
If we brick, how do we cover multiple zones? Does it mean smaller battlegroups and more infantry in order to better split our forces? How does this work in the world where opinion seems to be our infantry is sub par to other builds we can make?
Will the future be Stone aura and battlegroup on one side while Hooch Hauler and infantry are on the other?
Can we expect more ambush models to make up for our middle of the board brick approach?
How do our themes help out? PoD is the brick style we know and love. New Runebearer might help with getting beasts across multiple zones.
The rest are infantry focussed. Can you hold zones with Fennblades, Kriel Warriors and now Raiders? Do they not get swept off the board?
How does our shooting theme work in reality? We have range 8-10 and RAT 5 for the most part with our only ranged to hit boost now coming in the form of ambushing Pygs.
Can a shooty Troll list crack ARM?
Please share your knowledge. I clearly still haven't figured it out and we have recently had some new player questions about the faction and the play style that could use the help too. Can we take the opportunity of themes and CID to find answers for the faction beyond "play the Stone, take the brick" or is that the way to effectively play Trolls?
They have doubled down on the faction defining Stone with the new Elder and the Hooch Hauler follows the same design - center piece with a bubble of improved stats for other models.
3 things that concern me:
1. High cost - Faction defining 'must take' support models at high points cost. Stone and HH can now take you up to 30 points of support in order to have centralised auras that increase stats of the models around them.
Choir is cheaper. Shepherds are cheaper. Mechanics are cheaper. Beast handlers are cheaper.
2. Low stats - The rest of our models more and more appear to be designed with the idea that Stone will always be taken. We never crack ARM 18 on the basis that Stone exists. Meanwhile, we don't have any ARM increase spells on our casters (correct me if I'm wrong!). I play against Minions a fair bit and I'm constantly up against ARM 21 heavies (Carver; Batten Down the Hatches). Even if I take 9-12 points of Stone support I can only get up to ARM 20 myself. ARM 22 with EBDT but how often do you live the dream where he's parked next to an obstruction and under the aura?
Pigs can have greater ARM than Trolls and they get it from a caster instead of points being spent on support pieces. Just an example, don't get me started on ARM 20 warjacks for 10 points. Hello Khador. And if you say they are slow in order to compensate, check out how many Khador warcasters now have movement increase spells available.
3. Brick style - The nature of auras means we huddle around the Stone and now the HH. Scenario play however, requires the ability and mobility to cover several zones that are not right next to each other. Leaving the Troll player with the option to sacrifice one zone in favour of completely dominating the other, split their forces in order to cover the zones and therefore lose aura coverage, or simply go for the assassination and forget zoned scenarios altogether.
Now, I don't want this to come across as a whinge. I love Trolls and I love most of what I see in CID at the moment. Thank you PP for the new toys.
Rather than complain, I would like to have a constructive conversation and have the community share their advice on the best approach to playing our incredible faction.
Is the reality that we always take the Stone, get used to it? Is there no effective way to play without it?
If we brick, how do we cover multiple zones? Does it mean smaller battlegroups and more infantry in order to better split our forces? How does this work in the world where opinion seems to be our infantry is sub par to other builds we can make?
Will the future be Stone aura and battlegroup on one side while Hooch Hauler and infantry are on the other?
Can we expect more ambush models to make up for our middle of the board brick approach?
How do our themes help out? PoD is the brick style we know and love. New Runebearer might help with getting beasts across multiple zones.
The rest are infantry focussed. Can you hold zones with Fennblades, Kriel Warriors and now Raiders? Do they not get swept off the board?
How does our shooting theme work in reality? We have range 8-10 and RAT 5 for the most part with our only ranged to hit boost now coming in the form of ambushing Pygs.
Can a shooty Troll list crack ARM?
Please share your knowledge. I clearly still haven't figured it out and we have recently had some new player questions about the faction and the play style that could use the help too. Can we take the opportunity of themes and CID to find answers for the faction beyond "play the Stone, take the brick" or is that the way to effectively play Trolls?
