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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 20, 2017 13:21:36 GMT
Because we now know that there will be a theme for every model currently out by the end of the CY, I'm thinking it would be a fun exercise to try to guess the themes still to be added to each faction. You can see some definite themes that have not been developed into lists but exist in the model range. Number in parentheses is the number of total themes the faction would have, which is important since PP is going for rough parity in this too. Cygnar (5) - Something for Long Gunners. Seriously, they are the only thing not covered for them now that Precursors are in Heavy Metal. Khador (5) - Man O' Wars, and then a theme for Greylords which would include Doom Reavers obviously. Assualt Kommandos would go in one of them, probably the MOW theme. Protectorate (5) - I think something about a theme with Paladins/Monks & Zealots has been leaked, so that just leaves a Deliverer Theme. Cryx (4) - A southern island/living pirate theme would cover the Satyxis and the other two oddball units they have left. Mercenaries (??) - I don't know this model range very well, but something for Llale has been mentioned, and a pirate theme is obvious. But I bet that still leaves holes for them, so something else would have to be there too. Retribution (5) - They just need a Dawnguard theme and a Vyre/Nyss theme. The latter two seem like an odd mix, but with the Gorshade with Nyssor's sword thing happening this seems less strange. Plus, we know that some more Vyre stuff is in testing in the near future. Convergence (3) - They need something for infantry, and will probably have an Angel theme too since there's talk of expansion of the faction in that direction. Skorne (5) - If we take the Exalted theme as a given from the leak, the last two for them are Pretorians and a new Fist. Given everything, I'd expect them in the new forces book in September. Skorne somehow shoots the moon and ends up as one of the earliest factions to five lists when they have been stuck at one for the longest of a major faction. Legion (4) - Just Ogryns are left unaccounted for, and that list is already in the rumor pile. Trolls (5) - Trolls have the Highwayman/Trollkin shooting and Pygs left as themes. These may be combined, but I don't think it makes sense in the background. Circle (4) - A druids theme would cover everything so long as Una1 is also allowed. Minions ( ) - I know them a bit better than mercs, but I'm utterly unsure how you'd get the grab bag of solos they have left into a list. I'm also uncertain of how to expand them out in the current background. In an unironic way, I think making Disciples of Agony a Minions & Skorne theme could provide them a bit more width, but I'm guessing the optics on that are poor. ***** This whole thing is almost 100% educated speculation. The thing that caught me was mostly how well the theme slotted together for almost all the factions, meaning that it's the kind of thing that should have been done as a CID theme-o-rama early on when the issue first came up. Again, Skorne would mostly be left out of the loop, but that's on the basis that you wouldn't test things that are already solidified in the Forces book. Thoughts? I'd love to hear people who know some of these factions better than me comment on my analysis. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 20, 2017 13:38:48 GMT
Cygnar (5) - Something for Long Gunners. Seriously, they are the only thing not covered for them now that Precursors are in Heavy Metal. Precursors in Heavy Metal? that's news to me. Don't you mean Sword Knights? |
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Post by jisidro on Jul 20, 2017 13:43:26 GMT
Circle (4) - A druids theme would cover everything so long as Una1 is also allowed.
There isn't a living beast theme for circle. Pretty hard to sell the idea that it isn't a central part of faction identity...
4 themes jump out for circle: Tharn, Wolfsworn, Constructs and Living Beasts. We have to add a 5th, Blackclads, to this because... I don't know. Ask PP.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 20, 2017 13:47:08 GMT
Well, you're right about Long Gunners needing a theme. I have no clue what they could be a part of. Cygnar would basically need a militia theme. Their change in lore really screws them out of being part of the full Cygnar army.
I am pretty sure that either Mercs or Cygnar are getting a Church of Morrow theme. Or, that could be a mini faction in the future (hope its not that one).
Mercs will also get the announced Llael theme, and privateer theme.
Minions are getting a beast theme that has benefits for their lesser warlocks. Nothing more has been said there.
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 20, 2017 13:52:12 GMT
Cygnar (5) - Something for Long Gunners. Seriously, they are the only thing not covered for them now that Precursors are in Heavy Metal. Precursors in Heavy Metal? that's news to me. Don't you mean Sword Knights? The last CID change to Heavy Metal allowed for a single mercs unit specifically, which could be Precursors. Though the general rule change looks dead, specific lists appear to still have this option and are exercising it. |
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 20, 2017 13:58:35 GMT
Circle (4) - A druids theme would cover everything so long as Una1 is also allowed.
There isn't a living beast theme for circle. Pretty hard to sell the idea that it isn't a central part of faction identity...
4 themes jump out for circle: Tharn, Wolfsworn, Constructs and Living Beasts. We have to add a 5th, Blackclads, to this because... I don't know. Ask PP.
This is for coverage in themes. You can already take living warbeasts in two of themes available, so the effort should be to get models to playable in theme first. There's also odds that the Druids/Blackclad theme could also be a living beasts theme. Skorne also still doesn't have a conventional beast theme (though Disciples is probably going to be it for them) but it's strictly not required to cover the models. |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 20, 2017 14:21:10 GMT
There isn't a living beast theme for circle. Pretty hard to sell the idea that it isn't a central part of faction identity...
4 themes jump out for circle: Tharn, Wolfsworn, Constructs and Living Beasts. We have to add a 5th, Blackclads, to this because... I don't know. Ask PP.
This is for coverage in themes. You can already take living warbeasts in two of themes available, so the effort should be to get models to playable in theme first. There's also odds that the Druids/Blackclad theme could also be a living beasts theme. Skorne also still doesn't have a conventional beast theme (though Disciples is probably going to be it for them) but it's strictly not required to cover the models. I think it's pretty clear that every faction will get a jack/beast theme where taking jacks or beasts gets extra models. Circle does already have one. But Skorne does not. Disciples probably does not count. |
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Post by pangurban on Jul 20, 2017 14:23:12 GMT
Hellmouths?
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Ryilan
Guild Master 
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jul 20, 2017 14:26:03 GMT
Protectorate (5) - I think something about a theme with Paladins/Monks & Zealots has been leaked, so that just leaves a Deliverer Theme. I among other people have speculated that the Faithful Masses theme will also have deliverers and idrians. Either way, i very much doubt there will ever be a deliverer theme on it's own. Ryilan |
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Post by garou on Jul 20, 2017 14:49:14 GMT
This is for coverage in themes. You can already take living warbeasts in two of themes available, so the effort should be to get models to playable in theme first. There's also odds that the Druids/Blackclad theme could also be a living beasts theme. Skorne also still doesn't have a conventional beast theme (though Disciples is probably going to be it for them) but it's strictly not required to cover the models. I think it's pretty clear that every faction will get a jack/beast theme where taking jacks or beasts gets extra models. Circle does already have one. But Skorne does not. Disciples probably does not count. Circles beast theme has 5 beasts to chose from, 14 are left out that can't play in a beast theme. That is not ok and needs to be fixed asap. Why they felt the need to split our beasts is a mystery to me. It's not like warmachine factions have that restriction. |
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334 
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Post by Fire Step on Jul 20, 2017 14:51:41 GMT
Protectorate (5) - I think something about a theme with Paladins/Monks & Zealots has been leaked, so that just leaves a Deliverer Theme. I among other people have speculated that the Faithful Masses theme will also have deliverers and idrians. Either way, i very much doubt there will ever be a deliverer theme on it's own. Ryilan I can't imagine any worse than a deliverer only theme list  So many low pow, low accuracy aoes. I realise it isn't as easy as copy pasting, but there are a lot of similarities in the themes produced so far. My friend who plays Skorne is tearing his hair out over the lack of theme at the moment for his armies. He says he looks over the table and feels outnumbered, and often out matched on some ways. Skorne always seems to get a raw deal. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 20, 2017 14:55:57 GMT
It's pretty likely that the Cryx pirate theme will indeed include Satyxis, Bloodgorgers and Black Ogrun, but that actually leaves an in-faction Cephalyx theme. Though if the proposed CID changes go through, then Overlords and Mind Slavers will at least be useable in other themes.
Even though no jacks are currently left out of themes, we don't yet have a general jack theme, by which I mean one that gives bonuses for taking jacks instead of for taking Thralls while giving a random bonus to jacks and that happens to allow all jack support. I'm not sure if we'll ever get one.
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 20, 2017 15:19:18 GMT
I among other people have speculated that the Faithful Masses theme will also have deliverers and idrians. Either way, i very much doubt there will ever be a deliverer theme on it's own. Ryilan I can't imagine any worse than a deliverer only theme list So many low pow, low accuracy aoes. I realise it isn't as easy as copy pasting, but there are a lot of similarities in the themes produced so far. My friend who plays Skorne is tearing his hair out over the lack of theme at the moment for his armies. He says he looks over the table and feels outnumbered, and often out matched on some ways. Skorne always seems to get a raw deal. I'm a Skorne player primarily, so I do feel the pain too. One thing we've done locally is only played theme against theme and not and against not. So Skorne and CoC players get some games with more varied lists. I will sometimes play against themes with what I regard as very good Skorne lists, but I also see it like some sort of DBZ training with weighted clothes thing-- it's not a fair fight but it will get you better when the fair part actually comes. The Skorne theme issue is exasperated by two of their being stuck in a book that's not out for 1.5 months. PP wants to keep something back to get people to buy the book, but since it's so far back from all the other releases the faction ends up playing with a hand tied behind its back. This gets doubly bad when this is the same faction that needed Skornesmas/Hoksunukuh to get back on the same power level as other factions. |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 20, 2017 15:50:44 GMT
I think it's pretty clear that every faction will get a jack/beast theme where taking jacks or beasts gets extra models. Circle does already have one. But Skorne does not. Disciples probably does not count. Circles beast theme has 5 beasts to chose from, 14 are left out that can't play in a beast theme. That is not ok and needs to be fixed asap. Why they felt the need to split our beasts is a mystery to me. It's not like warmachine factions have that restriction. What do you mean you can't imagine why? It's pretty obvious. Circle has 2 main types of beasts. Fluffy and Construct. I'm not claiming it's balanced, but there is logic behind splitting them up into different themes. Thematically, they are different. I wouldn't be against Circle getting a theme for their living beasts. I think mostly, Circle needs a healthy serving of rebalancing. |
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Post by darkshroud on Jul 20, 2017 15:54:03 GMT
It's pretty likely that the Cryx pirate theme will indeed include Satyxis, Bloodgorgers and Black Ogrun, but that actually leaves an in-faction Cephalyx theme. Though if the proposed CID changes go through, then Overlords and Mind Slavers will at least be useable in other themes. Even though no jacks are currently left out of themes, we don't yet have a general jack theme, by which I mean one that gives bonuses for taking jacks instead of for taking Thralls while giving a random bonus to jacks and that happens to allow all jack support. I'm not sure if we'll ever get one. dont forget about those new pirates they spoiled at LnL for that pirate theme. cephalyx wont be in any cryx theme. they have their own. not saying pp said it, it just doesnt make sense. |
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) - I know them a bit better than mercs, but I'm utterly unsure how you'd get the grab bag of solos they have left into a list. I'm also uncertain of how to expand them out in the current background. In an unironic way, I think making Disciples of Agony a Minions & Skorne theme could provide them a bit more width, but I'm guessing the optics on that are poor.
