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Post by oncouch1 on Jul 20, 2017 5:36:41 GMT
The "nerf" is laughable. It actually makes the lances far stronger. Their damage output gets even more impressive with the change. Did you read it well? Between Lances themselves and Laddermoore, the change is: - 1 RAT - 2 POW on guns - Lost E-leap on guns + 1 POW on melee The change basically removes their ranged game (you don't pay 20 points to get 5x RAT 5, RNG 8 POW 12 shots without E-leap) and even in melee, they gain 1 POW on the melee attack, but having lost 1 RAT and 2 POW on the assault shot, they do less damage then before (it comes closes to similar just against very high ARM where the assault shot would have done little anyway). Basically now to get work done you have to commit them into a charge, and even if you do you do less total damage than before... Could you explain me how they could get "far stronger" from a change like this? If you where using them to do work on heavies via a charge the extra damage on the lance is very good. Losing the damage on the gun is negligible as it rarely did much more than a chip or two anyways. Sure not far stronger I forgot the change to laddermore. That said the change isn't a big deal. They still do a good deal of damage on the charge to heavies and still kill a decent amount of dudes via incidentals. What more do you really want? |
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Post by pangurban on Jul 20, 2017 5:44:06 GMT
Did you read it well? Between Lances themselves and Laddermoore, the change is: - 1 RAT - 2 POW on guns - Lost E-leap on guns + 1 POW on melee The change basically removes their ranged game (you don't pay 20 points to get 5x RAT 5, RNG 8 POW 12 shots without E-leap) and even in melee, they gain 1 POW on the melee attack, but having lost 1 RAT and 2 POW on the assault shot, they do less damage then before (it comes closes to similar just against very high ARM where the assault shot would have done little anyway). Basically now to get work done you have to commit them into a charge, and even if you do you do less total damage than before... Could you explain me how they could get "far stronger" from a change like this? If you where using them to do work on heavies via a charge the extra damage on the lance is very good. Losing the damage on the gun is negligible as it rarely did much more than a chip or two anyways. Sure not far stronger I forgot the change to laddermore. That said the change isn't a big deal. They still do a good deal of damage on the charge to heavies and still kill a decent amount of dudes via incidentals. What more do you really want? For it to not make them far stronger, I assume.  Which, fortunately, is the case. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 20, 2017 6:23:47 GMT
If you where using them to do work on heavies via a charge the extra damage on the lance is very good. Losing the damage on the gun is negligible as it rarely did much more than a chip or two anyways. Chip of 1 or 2 damage is about equivalent to + 1 POW on the lance, their damage is now just no longer tied to Laddermore, though she still does a lot of (infantry clearing) work by herself. The main change is basically that they lost the ability to just clear all infantry while dancing out of charge range all game long, which I can only applaud. |
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Post by Aegis on Jul 20, 2017 9:00:46 GMT
Did you read it well? Between Lances themselves and Laddermoore, the change is: - 1 RAT - 2 POW on guns - Lost E-leap on guns + 1 POW on melee The change basically removes their ranged game (you don't pay 20 points to get 5x RAT 5, RNG 8 POW 12 shots without E-leap) and even in melee, they gain 1 POW on the melee attack, but having lost 1 RAT and 2 POW on the assault shot, they do less damage then before (it comes closes to similar just against very high ARM where the assault shot would have done little anyway). Basically now to get work done you have to commit them into a charge, and even if you do you do less total damage than before... Could you explain me how they could get "far stronger" from a change like this? If you where using them to do work on heavies via a charge the extra damage on the lance is very good. Losing the damage on the gun is negligible as it rarely did much more than a chip or two anyways. Sure not far stronger I forgot the change to laddermore. That said the change isn't a big deal. They still do a good deal of damage on the charge to heavies and still kill a decent amount of dudes via incidentals. What more do you really want? they gained +1 DMG on the melee attack, but that -2 damage on assault pretty much counters that (the old POW 14 normally did 1-2 damages to heavies, so overall they LOST 0-1 melee power). Also, with an old charge you could kill 3 models (the target and the 2 eleaps), now you also lost an e-leap on charge. The nerf is a straight nerf, not a gain, that is what I meant. That said, I'm happy for them being nerfed since they needed it, but I wanted to make clear that it is indeed a nerf (losing a lot of ranged power and overal being same or slightly worse at melee is a pure nerf, not a wash and even less a buff). |
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Post by jisidro on Jul 20, 2017 10:17:32 GMT
It's a straight nerf to ranged game, still above the other cavs... POW 16 in particular boggles the mind.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288 
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Post by whydak on Jul 20, 2017 11:21:26 GMT
It's a straight nerf to ranged game, still above the other cavs... POW 16 in particular boggles the mind. But maybe other cavs should be stronger, not reverse. We don't see them to much lately. Lances nerf was necessary. Time will tell if it was enough. But the fact that they are still much better than many other cavalery options may show of desired cavalery power. |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jul 20, 2017 12:21:12 GMT
It's a straight nerf to ranged game, still above the other cavs... POW 16 in particular boggles the mind. But maybe other cavs should be stronger, not reverse. We don't see them to much lately. Lances nerf was necessary. Time will tell if it was enough. But the fact that they are still much better than many other cavalery options may show of desired cavalery power. Chosen of Everblight is in Legion's next CID. With a base pow 14 mount. Likely a pow 15 or 16 weapon. I think we will see a very strong melee cav unit without the lance rule. I believe the new bane riders are pretty well up there too. Even though ghostly and vengeance could let them get charges more reliably if they had the lance rule. |
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Post by jisidro on Jul 20, 2017 13:28:54 GMT
It's a straight nerf to ranged game, still above the other cavs... POW 16 in particular boggles the mind. But maybe other cavs should be stronger, not reverse. We don't see them to much lately. Lances nerf was necessary. Time will tell if it was enough. But the fact that they are still much better than many other cavalery options may show of desired cavalery power.
IMO they dropped off due to heavy metal. The ammount of synergy they had and still have in faction is staggering (a bit less now).
Having a ranged attack, the highest POW charging (tied with khador and Battle Driven Menoth) and not charging (POW 14), e-leap of the weapon and all the lightning synergy is still something I don't quite get... But let's see how the other cavs are treated when they hit CID, so far longriders got 1" reach to 2".
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 20, 2017 13:41:24 GMT
[the highest POW charging (tied with khador and Battle Driven Menoth) and not charging (tied with Cryx) I'm not sure what you mean by this. Bane Riders also have Brutal Charge and start at P+S 13, so in no way are they tied with Storm Lances. |
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Post by jisidro on Jul 20, 2017 13:45:46 GMT
[the highest POW charging (tied with khador and Battle Driven Menoth) and not charging (tied with Cryx) I'm not sure what you mean by this. Bane Riders also have Brutal Charge and start at P+S 13, so in no way are they tied with Storm Lances.
Sorry forgot the 14 vs 13, you're right. Best POW when not charging. Editting the above.
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Post by Aegis on Jul 20, 2017 14:12:25 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Bane Riders also have Brutal Charge and start at P+S 13, so in no way are they tied with Storm Lances.
Sorry forgot the 14 vs 13, you're right. Best POW when not charging. Editting the above.
Actually: - Vengers with Battle driven have POW 11 weapon master non-charge attacks that is stronger than POW 14 - Ferox have POW 12 weapon master mounts during non-charge turns, making overall more damage than non-charging Lances - Long riders have POW 14 mounts, so they do the same total damage of Lances during not-charge turns. - Bane Riders are indeed POW 13, but with vengeance (likely triggered on non-charge turns) they can do a lot more damage than Lances in non-charge turns. - The new Legion heavy cavs are labelled as "Very Strong", so I expect them to be in the list for the contenders on melee strenght. That not to say that Lances aren't still in the top tier of Heavy Cavs, but let's evaluate them for what they do and avoid to add myths over that. |
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Post by darkshroud on Jul 20, 2017 14:18:33 GMT
I wish bane riders had a gun to nerf  |
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 20, 2017 17:12:31 GMT
Sorry forgot the 14 vs 13, you're right. Best POW when not charging. Editting the above.
Actually: - Ferox have POW 12 weapon master mounts during non-charge turns, making overall more damage than non-charging Lances Correction, Ferox are only weapon masters on turns they pounce. Important if you manage to lock them down. |
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Jul 20, 2017 17:18:48 GMT
*Realistically Ferox normally have pow 14 WM non-charges because you waterfall the spears into the mounts with cma*
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jul 20, 2017 17:23:18 GMT
And they can just pounce on the spot if they have to.
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Which, fortunately, is the case.
