|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 30, 2017 12:47:48 GMT
If you're worried about Circle in your pairing, is it a good idea to get a couple Slags into that second list? I'm tuning Ragnor to fight control and gunline casters in general. It does seem that most of the worst offenders are on the Warmachine side, and now Wurmwood is almost always in Bones of Orboros. And now the Celestial Fulcrum is a beast, and Circle has a genuinely scary gunline with that and Tanith, with maybe a couple other casters who can also run it. So my Ragnor list will have construct enemies in what, 3 games in 4? Maybe more? Plus objectives? And even with no constructs to fight at all, it's not like Slags are helpless. 2x PS 13 claws, a ranged attack, assault, MAT 6... with a caster who has a damage buff, that's really not bad at all for 10 points. So I will have to try this: conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0bfL9D5-5-5L5L0hbL7d6R0l0m6n6Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Slag Troll [10] - Slag Troll [10] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Trollkin Runeshapers [9] Trollkin Runeshapers [9]
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jun 30, 2017 14:39:40 GMT
I kinda like it
|
|
skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
|
Post by skurkious on Jun 30, 2017 19:09:26 GMT
I'm liking the slag trolls in Mark3. Not having two shots and no animus to speak of blows but I've found them useful in every game I've played. I'm really liking the idea of running two earthborns lately too. They are just so tough and with the changes to terrain rules, its much easier to use their abilities. They definitely need something to offset their pillow fists but they do good work.
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jun 30, 2017 23:15:27 GMT
A caster with a def buff and a relevant placement of a water feature or Horgle and an obstacle become insane with the Earthborn. My opponents HATE the Earthborn. I've had many people say they expect it to get nerfed.
Played well it trades 2:1 nearly every single game. It and the bouncer are attrition dream pieces!
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 1, 2017 0:53:43 GMT
I kinda like it I've named the list "Dig 'Em" though I have yet to settle on a specific build. This may yet be it. I would like to have Horgle to run the Slags but I don't know how to get him in there. The points just don't work out, unless I want to swap out one of those three free solos, and they all seem very necessary.
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jul 1, 2017 0:58:41 GMT
I kinda like it I've named the list "Dig 'Em" though I have yet to settle on a specific build. This may yet be it. I would like to have Horgle to run the Slags but I don't know how to get him in there. The points just don't work out, unless I want to swap out one of those three free solos, and they all seem very necessary. I had the same thought looking at it. I wondered if the runebearer is less necessary considering the knockdown effects can come from the runeshapers. I think it's only possible to decide after a few games with each. How could we setup ADR with this list so that if it's a spread out scenario we could drop Horgle1 in?
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 1, 2017 2:03:21 GMT
I've named the list "Dig 'Em" though I have yet to settle on a specific build. This may yet be it. I would like to have Horgle to run the Slags but I don't know how to get him in there. The points just don't work out, unless I want to swap out one of those three free solos, and they all seem very necessary. I had the same thought looking at it. I wondered if the runebearer is less necessary considering the knockdown effects can come from the runeshapers. I think it's only possible to decide after a few games with each. How could we setup ADR with this list so that if it's a spread out scenario we could drop Horgle1 in? This just doesn't look as solid, does it? conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0bfL9D5-0hbLed5L5L7d6R0k0m6n6n6nTrollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Horgle Ironstrike [0(4)] - Slag Troll [10] - Slag Troll [10] Janissa Stonetide [4] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Trollkin Runeshapers [9] Trollkin Runeshapers [9] Trollkin Runeshapers [9]
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jul 1, 2017 3:04:42 GMT
That list is certainly not as solid.
I still don't understand how ADR works with free solos. Can we not just bring Horgle1 as a specialist, drop the runebearer and put Horgle 1 in?
Would that be allowed if both Horgle1 and a Runebearer were listed as specialists?
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 1, 2017 3:35:09 GMT
That list is certainly not as solid. I still don't understand how ADR works with free solos. Can we not just bring Horgle1 as a specialist, drop the runebearer and put Horgle 1 in? Would that be allowed if both Horgle1 and a Runebearer were listed as specialists?I don't think You mean Specialists? I don't think so. I think if a junior comes in or out you have to move their whole BG and cannot switch the slags back and forth from Horgle to Ragnor.
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jul 1, 2017 4:57:00 GMT
So maybe put the alternate list in as the "main list" with the ADR options being Horgle, two slags and 16 other points. Then you have the option to drop in either the runebearer or Horgle as the solo and the slags in either battle group. But again... I don't understand the rules perfectly at this point.
|
|
|
Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 1, 2017 8:50:21 GMT
If you're worried about Circle in your pairing, ... conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0bfL9D5-5-5L5L0hbL7d6R0l0m6n6Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Slag Troll [10] - Slag Troll [10] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Trollkin Runeshapers [9] Trollkin Runeshapers [9] I´d like to ask two questions: 1) Why Ragnor? 2) What is the job of those Runeshapers? That being asked, I think this list is a good all comers list too. Should offer plenty of fun. Though maybe it´s even better as an all comers list under Calandra or Horgle2. I once did the math and if I remember correctly a Slag under Horgle2´s feat is able to one round any existing heavy warjack/beast.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 1, 2017 20:02:05 GMT
I guess I didn't really explain my strategy. Ragnor has the defensive tech to outlast both control lists and gun lines. He can take ground with his feat and keep from losing too much not only to an aggressive opponent but also one who tries to shut me out. Dig In > DEF 16 is not going to stop Haley from landing TK when she really needs to, but it does make her boost if it's important. Same with gun lines. Chargers could be a problem, but the feat can help with that.
I think what people find so frustrating about fighting Ragnor is that he is so strong defensively yet always has the Pop & Drop assassination in his back pocket. Or Pulverizer on an Axer to go after enemy support from odd angles, or a few slams and pushes for a sudden scenario win, and so on. So they have a tough nut to crack but they can't let their guard down.
Runeshapers are in the list first of all because they can also Dig In. So they can be up front but it's just not efficient for a gun line or control list to remove a 3-point, DEF 16/ARM 15(17) model with 5 boxes. And that's what this list does- get ahead on attrition because sure, you can kill my stuff, but it will cost too much- like the aforementioned 2 for 1 with the EBDT. Second, Magic 7 and POW 14 on Rock Hammer is actually not bad, especially with crit KD and AOE. Or they can simply walk up and KD everything (else) under a 4-inch pie plate, no rolls needed.
Runeshapers are independent, Steady, and reasonably tough. They can initiate piece trades or force skirmishers to commit. They can harass flanks or counter such a tactic. The real kicker, though, is that they can do a very good job of scoring circles, as it is much easier to get three medium bases into one zone than two or three times as many. And in the SR17 rules, they can score a zone if only one is left.
In MK3, Runeshapers are generalists in a world of specialists, and that does often make them look bad by comparison, but they are the only fighting unit allowed in POD, so there's that too.
Could Runeshapers stand to be better? Sure. I would much rather they gain AD from POD instead of FA:U and I'd like Janissa's Leadership to be upgraded to Elite Cadre. Or they could just be cut to 8 points, as they are admittedly, a tad over-costed as is. Pick two of those three things, maybe.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 1, 2017 20:04:21 GMT
Of course, this list cannot handle infantry swarms, especially Ghost Fleet, so I need to build my other list with that in mind.
Also, this whole thread turned out to be all about one list and not about the idea of using Slag Trolls to fight Circle. I'm still curious as to what you guys think about that.
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Jul 2, 2017 6:52:31 GMT
They're an amazing addition to any PoD list on ADR. Swapping out a Mauler and an EBDT for 3x slags is totally ball busting in the right matchups.
As for the circle matchup specifically, I'm unsure of how big of a surge in constructs this new fulcrum will create. At the moment, waiting to see how things shake out.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 2, 2017 7:57:42 GMT
They're an amazing addition to any PoD list on ADR. Swapping out a Mauler and an EBDT for 3x slags is totally ball busting in the right matchups. As for the circle matchup specifically, I'm unsure of how big of a surge in constructs this new fulcrum will create. At the moment, waiting to see how things shake out. That's understandable but I played against the list with Tanith and 2x Fulcrum in CID and it was hideous. All three of those models with both damage output and survivability so high... and all the shenanigans on top of that... I really hope they made it so the Fulcrum cannot teleport via the shifting stones. That was a load of bull.
|
|