Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jul 6, 2017 14:40:37 GMT
Choir aren't taken 99% of the time. It's nearer 80%. Especially with troop heavy casters like High Reclaimer. HR does use them. He has 32 WJP and the jacks he takes can certainly use the choir for their buff and protection. They are also bodies that add souls for a cheap price. I mean, you get 4 for 4 points. In fact, because they are so cheap and you have to use 2+ jacks anyway, i don't see a reason why anyone would not use them. Ryilan
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Post by Korianneder on Jul 6, 2017 14:42:29 GMT
There's a corollary in every Convergence list and they still suck outside their theme? Sounds like cause for a buff to me, not a nerf. Convergence isn't the faction. Destruction Initiative is.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 6, 2017 14:54:26 GMT
Choir aren't taken 99% of the time. It's nearer 80%. Especially with troop heavy casters like High Reclaimer. HR does use them. He has 32 WJP and the jacks he takes can certainly use the choir for their buff and protection. They are also bodies that add souls for a cheap price. I mean, you get 4 for 4 points. In fact, because they are so cheap and you have to use 2+ jacks anyway, i don't see a reason why anyone would not use them. Ryilan Fair enough, might just be a UK thing, but I've certainly seen less choir than in Mk2.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jul 6, 2017 14:55:03 GMT
If you want to choose to not listen to Cygnar players when they say their drawbacks then I don't know what to tell you. To be honest, it feels a lot like trying to discuss the game with a brick wall at this stage.
You're so incredibly entrenched in your position and defensive that no real value can be gained.
I'm happy just to walk away.
Really? Because it feels like arguing against the tide from this side. You can keep doing the same thing, the same tired arguments and they don't become good mystically because you say them enough.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 6, 2017 15:16:08 GMT
To be honest, it feels a lot like trying to discuss the game with a brick wall at this stage.
You're so incredibly entrenched in your position and defensive that no real value can be gained.
I'm happy just to walk away.
Really? Because it feels like arguing against the tide from this side. You can keep doing the same thing, the same tired arguments and they don't become good mystically because you say them enough. A tide of people that you outnumber? Go look at the poll numbers and count the number of cygnar players replying at any time in this thread. People come along and get tag teamed into submission and stop posting. Lets not pretend you're poor picked on Cygnar players ;-)
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jul 6, 2017 15:22:40 GMT
Really? Because it feels like arguing against the tide from this side. You can keep doing the same thing, the same tired arguments and they don't become good mystically because you say them enough. A tide of people that you outnumber? Go look at the poll numbers and count the number of cygnar players replying at any time in this thread. People come along and get tag teamed into submission and stop posting. Lets not pretend you're poor picked on Cygnar players ;-)
If their arguments had validity then "tag teaming" is irrelevant.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 6, 2017 15:29:28 GMT
honestly despite saying that I feel Cygnar is spoiled the faction overall is fine and the Junior is fine too, just kinda clunky design in the longterm.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 6, 2017 15:51:44 GMT
To be fair, PP have taken/are taking further steps to tone down the strongest elements in Cygnar
- Haley 2 losing deflection - Temporal Barrier changing - Caine 2 having to pay for shot types
Plus Storm Lances and Laddermore are going to come out of CID in the not too distant future.
If I am trying to be hard to be objective, then I will admit Cygnar is in a very good place in terms of where it stands among the factions, I don't however feel that they are so powerful that it is a majorly upsetting the game.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 6, 2017 15:53:40 GMT
honestly despite saying that I feel Cygnar is spoiled the faction overall is fine and the Junior is fine too, just kinda clunky design in the longterm. Any faction that has some sort of ubiquitous support model in their lineup that people feel other models need to be designed around (read: have a tax applied, but I despise that term) feels like it's going to run into issues in the long term. I think people - and that might include players and devs both - take this "we can't have X because Y is in our faction and that would make it too good" argument a bit too far though. I mean, I expect Protectorate "Menoth is my pilot" jacks to be damn good. Not just comparable to everyone else once the hymns kick in, that should give them an actual edge. Similarly, I expect Trolls to be able to take a beating and keep going well beyond the point anything else would throw in the towel. And not just because of the Kriel Stone, that thing should make an existing strength even better. These qualities have to be compensated for with weaknesses in other regards, of course, but they should be notable advantages these factions have over others. Whether a faction like Cygnar should have a durability advantage through AS is another question, but the whole "let's tone this down so something else can buff it up again" paradigm is just silly and doesn't do the game any good.
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 6, 2017 15:56:09 GMT
I'm close to shutting this down, knock it off with the headbashing
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 6, 2017 16:26:46 GMT
Choir being squishy isn't enough of a weakness for them to not be taken 99% of the time. Gosh, plz nerf. Would like to point out that they did get nerfed. 2 nerfs at once actually. Probably not the best example to bring up for a "don't nerf iconic models" argument
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 6, 2017 16:34:59 GMT
Choir being squishy isn't enough of a weakness for them to not be taken 99% of the time. Gosh, plz nerf. Would like to point out that they did get nerfed. 2 nerfs at once actually. Probably not the best example to bring up for a "don't nerf iconic models" argument (I was being sarcastic to illustrate a point. I don't actually want the choir nerfed) And yeah, the Choir got nerfed in the Mk3 change. So did Junior. They're a fine choice of example.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 6, 2017 16:54:23 GMT
Would like to point out that they did get nerfed. 2 nerfs at once actually. Probably not the best example to bring up for a "don't nerf iconic models" argument (I was being sarcastic to illustrate a point. I don't actually want the choir nerfed) And yeah, the Choir got nerfed in the Mk3 change. So did Junior. They're a fine choice of example. I don't think it's comparable though. The main nerf was losing the +2 to hit, which with power-up would've been crazy, so I understand losing that one. The other nerf was losing 4" of CMD, or just under 6" of spreading. This means that the Protectorate have to bunch their 'jacks up and with their low speed, can't redeploy. JR got a price reduction and was made to take a 'jack. I think that the Chior is fine, but Jr might need a re-examine, but isn't drastically overpowered.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 6, 2017 16:59:51 GMT
Holy balls i forgot he got cheaper. Every one go get your bats we'll do it properly this time
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 6, 2017 17:10:11 GMT
Holy balls i forgot he got cheaper. Every one go get your bats we'll do it properly this time Yes. Yes. Burn the witch...
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