|
Post by tapecrawler on Jun 18, 2017 15:58:47 GMT
There's been a lot of noise in the various forums about Ghost Fleet and it seems like there ought to be more than one way it can be teched against. I've been thinking about Vlad1 with Alexia and lots of bodies. I have no idea if it will work but would like to hear some thoughts on it. This is what I've come up with so far:
War Room Army
Khador - Vlad1 gf build
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen - Alexia & 9 Risen Grunts: 10 - Thrall Warrior Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10 Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10 Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
---
GENERATED : 06/18/2017 10:48:59 BUILD ID : 2042.17-05-22
This list is designed with the WGI as sacrificial lambs to feed Alexia and just cause target saturation for the Ghost Fleet. Vlad1 will keep Windwall up to limit ranged attacks while everybody closes with the Ghost Fleet. The two units of WGI in the lead with Alexia close behind scooping up as many casualties as she can and firing off a thrall every turn. The Doomies are what I'm trying to deliver ultimately, I think if I get a few from each unit through if will be ugly for Ghost Fleet.
|
|
Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
|
Post by Growl on Jun 18, 2017 18:11:41 GMT
I am not trying to be a hater, so please don't take my comments as harsh criticism, they are not meant to be, in case they sound that way. The problem I would see with your list is similar to the problem I faced with my Sorscha1 list. The Ghost Fleet very often out threats you, and unless you are able to wipe out a unit in one shot, which you basically cannot because they will leave one guy way back in the deployment zone and then come back at you with either 2-4 new guys the next turn. Eventually you lose out on those trades. The Wraith engines likewise can't be hurt by the majority of your guys, and out threat your Doomreavers. Denny's debuffs and FEAT also would put the hurt on your Kayazy, but honestly they don't even need that help. The bonuses from gang and Rengrave make it very doable to hit them and once again your guys are not coming back. Of course, maybe I'm just missing it completely and your list would do great. I just feel that there is an absence of long range threats that can swing the game 180 degrees.
A correction, I just realized you have Alexia in there. Maybe she can do more work than I think. Though you would need to keep her close to Vlad for Wind Wall protection.
|
|
|
Post by tapecrawler on Jun 18, 2017 20:46:12 GMT
Nope, your criticism is very much appreciated. The idea was to run Vlad fairly tight behind the brick which would put around 53 bodies in front of him. I don't know if it would work, I don't even have enough models to proxy this list.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 18, 2017 22:02:48 GMT
I have one game into it so by no means an expert but you have to have some magic shooting to get rid of blackbane and then a plan for killing Denny at range through destealth while surviving at least nine and up to 15 high quality shots. I do think there are non sorscha 2 options but I think if you go that route it is very helpful to bring one of our stealthy casters (or try to bring 40 winter guard and just sac pawn like car cra while avoiding bad venom sprays
|
|
|
Post by tapecrawler on Jun 18, 2017 22:58:07 GMT
Why magic shooting, wouldn't the Doomie fellblades kill Blackbane?
|
|
|
Post by zerosequence on Jun 18, 2017 23:39:21 GMT
If you can deliver them before they get shot off the table.
|
|
|
Post by tapecrawler on Jun 19, 2017 0:02:58 GMT
I figure with 20 WGI, 10 Kayazi, and 10 (at least) risen running interference with Windwall up, I should be able to deliver most if not all of the Doomies. Especially with a couple of devastators tagging along. I think any of these will decimate any unit they come in contact with. It's a strategy I was pretty good at in other game systems, overload their offensive output with too many scary units coming at them fast.
I just want y'all to understand, I'm not trying to be stubborn or argumentative, I'm just trying to wrap my head around Warmachine and the tactics that are effective.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 19, 2017 0:03:45 GMT
If you can deliver them before they get shot off the table. Plus one. Without something extraordinary (for example m2 using prowl and then clouds) getting them their will be hard. They have big target on their heads for the pistol wraiths and hell slinger, in part because of the souls they will give. Artifice helps but then they will apply rifles. I guess you could try 18 or 24 of them which is probably enough to at least force Denny to feat so they have enough time to clear them. I really think it has to be, for example, behemoth under a greylord. what I am interested is whether it will be nerfed. So far pp isn't happy with metawarpers and that is what gf is.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 19, 2017 0:14:15 GMT
I figure with 20 WGI, 10 Kayazi, and 10 (at least) risen running interference with Windwall up, I should be able to deliver most if not all of the Doomies. Especially with a couple of devastators tagging along. I think any of these will decimate any unit they come in contact with. It's a strategy I was pretty good at in other game systems, overload their offensive output with too many scary units coming at them fast. I just want y'all to understand, I'm not trying to be stubborn or argumentative, I'm just trying to wrap my head around Warmachine and the tactics that are effective. Ok. Play this out. Plus one on the roll so Denny is likely to go first. She runs everything. She will keep pistol wraiths 14 plus inches from your leading doomie. You move up. next turn she starts by running 2 bone chickens into optimal position. Next Denny goes and feats.You are minus three speed but most critical can't run or charge. So more shooting. Assuming no assination you get three venoms sprays. Pistol wraiths and hell slinger pick off six models since they ignore windfall. Rifle dudes shoot at stuff out of windfall range. i would be shocked if Denny is not way up on attrition at that point. now I do agree that stealthy kayazy are a good foundation. Focus high quality shoots into the bone chickens so you can avoid venoms. But non stealthed infantry like wgi isn't a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 19, 2017 0:48:09 GMT
Using melee infantry without a delivery system against ranged backed up by anti-charge feat doesn't seem like a counter to me.
Our avaialable most solid counters to GF so far are: - take S2 or Alexia 2 and rfp leaders - take S1 and freeze their dudes including incorp dudes
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 19, 2017 1:41:24 GMT
Using melee infantry without a delivery system against ranged backed up by anti-charge feat doesn't seem like a counter to me. Our avaialable most solid counters to GF so far are: - take S2 or Alexia 2 and rfp leaders - take S1 and freeze their dudes including incorp dudes I want to TRY strak 2 at some point. Stealth helps keep him safe and it is hysterical but black dragon plus ir plus feat plus mini feat is still arm 21 after her feat and parasite . You would have to go out of theme but with a victor and Kell it might get it done because the rifles will have to car to reliably crack armor even when just in shield wall. Plus quicken does buff def even against ghost shot.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 19, 2017 1:42:09 GMT
Using melee infantry without a delivery system against ranged backed up by anti-charge feat doesn't seem like a counter to me. Our avaialable most solid counters to GF so far are: - take S2 or Alexia 2 and rfp leaders - take S1 and freeze their dudes including incorp dudes Old witch should work but you gotta keep her stealthed.
|
|
|
Post by tapecrawler on Jun 19, 2017 1:57:21 GMT
My meta has nobody interested in Cryx so I'm having trouble finding a Denny1 Ghost Fleet list. Could somebody post it for me?
I take it Windwall won't be as effective as I hoped. I'll ponder this and throw some more stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
|
|
Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
|
Post by Growl on Jun 19, 2017 3:01:10 GMT
The guy I was playing used this list, as discussed in my Battle Report in NEWS FROM THE FRONT!; War Room Army Cryx Theme: The Ghost Fleet 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Warwitch Deneghra - WJ: +28 - Nightmare - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Deathripper - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Deathripper - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) Wraith Engine - PC: 15 Wraith Engine - PC: 15 Captain Rengrave - PC: 0 Hellslinger Phantom - PC: 0 Revenant Crew of the Atramentous - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 Revenant Crew of the Atramentous - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 Revenant Crew of the Atramentous - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 tapecrawler I don't think you are being stubborn or argumentative, I think you are trying to work out a problem we are all facing. I wish you luck, though I guess I was hoping to be the one to figure it out lol. One problem I see for you, is the Wraith Engines making Machine Wraiths that then make your Devastators move out of the way and attack you. Caine can easily take out 4 Doomreavers and the piece trade between the WGI and the pirates does not favor you. The one part that I cannot speak to is Alexia1. I know there are a lot of things she can do, I am just having a hard time understanding how she does a lot for you. THEME: The Ghost Fleet
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on Jun 19, 2017 7:11:45 GMT
Using melee infantry without a delivery system against ranged backed up by anti-charge feat doesn't seem like a counter to me. Our avaialable most solid counters to GF so far are: - take S2 or Alexia 2 and rfp leaders - take S1 and freeze their dudes including incorp dudes I think Zerkova1 is a contender too. Sacred Ward helps in protecting her from spells used in assassinations. Although her clouds don't help againt GF shooting, they do provide some additional melee defence against GF models. Her feat does provide some protection from the shooting, as well as preventing the charges which GF models can need to do significant damage against more than one Khador jack. I've been running her in Jaws with this list. It's not a pure anti-GF build, but I've not felt like I don't have a chance with it: Zerkova1 - Juggernaut - Juggernaut - Marauder Forgeseer - Destroyer Forgeseer - Destroyer Max Assassins + UA Eliminators Eliminators Widowmakers Marksman Most the infantry are stealth, which GF shooting doesn't ignore, and are hard for GF models to hit in melee, especially with Zerkova's clouds in play. Essentially, Denny1 has to use her feat to give a decent chance of her models hitting. There is still a risk of ranged assassination against Zerkova. Her feat can give one round of near safety, but getting the melee infantry to tie up the shooting models is the longer term strategy. Against the shooty solos, don't neglect Empowering and boosting the Destroyers' ranged attack rolls - the shot is powerful enough as is, but accuracy is needed. The Eliminators can be used as models to go after the Revenant models in the back (parry means they can dance through the main lines to get there). The Assassins can run to engage the Riflemen - that can be better than killing them in your turn, as it means to shoot they have to take a free strike if they want to shoot, and if they die to that, they don't come back that round. If necessary a debuff like Crippling Grasp can be removed via Hex Blast - not ideal, but better than nothing. The jacks are present in sufficient numbers to present an issue to Cryx (one reason I've gone for a multi-jack battlegroup rather than a colossal). Any of them are a threat to Cryx jacks/Wraith Engines in melee and the Destroyer shots aren't bad even against incorporeal Wraith Engines if you Empower for a boosted damage role. Watcher can be very helpful against arc nodes trying to get to Zerkova via a spell (typically Scourge) cast on a nearby model - a boosted Juggernaut has a reasonable chance of taking out the node, especially if the Widowmakers have been chipping away. You have some magical attacks (some at high POW) and Zerkova can try to get a juicy spray on occasion. As I said, it's not a perfect anti-GF list, but it's got game while still being playable into other lists too. In a divide and conquer format, that might be the best we can hope for.
|
|