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Post by tesoe on May 27, 2017 1:18:12 GMT
Ah, I what you're saying. Really build the assassination into the plan, and use the gun to eat any of the early transfers or power field. Thanks for the help y'all.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 27, 2017 1:42:40 GMT
Nah the Gun is like a Points Tumor. I hate design that doesn't match it.
Its most visually Iconic thing is the Hammer and its Gun, and its gun is a points Tumor. I nearly refuse to use things that I feel don't mesh with their intended design.
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Post by Voodoogk on May 27, 2017 2:30:27 GMT
Play it with Vlad1 and run it under malakov just once, you'll realize Rowdy is a new player that probably shouldn't be trashing models he doesn't understand. It can shoot just about any heavy without boosting, it can hit anything high defense with boosting, and I've done half a khador heavy worth of damage with its gun in a single turn. It will kill any heavy with a 12" charge.. the thing is a monster. It's a premium jack for sure, it doesn't run perfectly under everyone, but when its supported correctly its probably the best jack in our faction.
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Post by auraco on May 27, 2017 4:46:17 GMT
Yup I won't accept any trash talking against the grolar, if you don't like it, that's your prerogative, but noting is going to convince me there is a better warjack for Strakhov1 than the grolar. The gun is situational, but it is totally worth it in situations where it can shine. I totally agree with what Voodoogk is saying about the grolar being the best jack in faction when supported correctly.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 27, 2017 5:02:57 GMT
Play it with Vlad1 and run it under malakov just once, you'll realize Rowdy is a new player And Run the Mortar Crew with Irusk 2 and the Artillerist and aim, and apply Kovnik Joe, and you can easily hit Even up to Defense 17! Therefore the Mortar crew is awesome for high defense targets! And anybody who says otherwise must just be a new player! And when you spin the math so it's not accurate, it can hit anything with anything because don't question it! I had the Mortar Crew Trash a Hurricane under Arcane Shield! I'm being Facetious, but technically everything is more accurate/ Damaging when boosted and with support. The question is it worthwhile spending points or just drop it down by 3 or so, and remove the niche gun. Or is it the few times that it actually synchronizes with certain casters worth it if it's a pretty garbage gun on its own (And the situations where its useful are INCREDIBLY Niche for an Innacurate, short ranged gun on the weaker end of the spectrum)? It's literally the worst type of ranged weapon. Short Ranged, Inaccurate and not very hard-hitting. Isn't ANYTHING best when supported Correctly? The question is how much support you must invest, and how niche the support has to be.
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Post by borderprince on May 27, 2017 5:11:18 GMT
Both those spells are great, but neither help it shoot. So I come back to wonder if for fewer points it'd be better to have a Kodiak or Juggernaut. If you're thinking about the Grolar as a jack where the gun needs to be maximised, you're thinking about it wrong. It's not powerful enough to merit that attention. It's useful in certain circumstances (as noted, principally against a knocked down target), nothing more. It's a premium jack. You want to play it with casters who want a premium jack, quality over quantity. Strakhov1 for the assassination and casters with buffs for only a single jack are the best choices (hence all the discussion of Superiority casters). Exactly! In the current game quantity tends to win out, so you probably only want to include a Grolar if you've thought very carefully about how you want to use it - that's easiest with Strakhov1, where his jack assassination is a time-honored tactic.
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Post by tesoe on May 27, 2017 5:28:03 GMT
So why all the love for Strakhov specifically? Superiority is great, but he's not the only caster with it. Not to mention Redline, Full Throttle, and Infernal Machine are fairly comparable. Is it just the extra threat extension from his feat?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 27, 2017 5:32:00 GMT
Also Overrun I believe. I just got Strahov Recently so I think that's the Shtick.
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Post by welshhoppo on May 27, 2017 7:30:23 GMT
So why all the love for Strakhov specifically? Superiority is great, but he's not the only caster with it. Not to mention Redline, Full Throttle, and Infernal Machine are fairly comparable. Is it just the extra threat extension from his feat? It's the free charge too. Strakhov is really good at killing people from way down town, but he needs a good Jack to do it. So you pretty much only have a few options. You can either go for a reach Jack, or a melee power house. Out of our three reach jacks. Two are characters and can't be taken in theme, the last is the Spriggan, who is more expensive than the Grolar and hits less hard and has no way of knocking its target down. Even MAT8 from superiority misses def 14 about 30% of the time. Now Strakhovs other issue is that he can't buff damage. So you need a jack that can dish out said damage. Now you can use a Juggernaut and it can work okay. But if you don't get that crit off the initial attack you still might have to boost to hit on a few of his other attacks to make them connect. now the Grolar has knockdown on that attack and it isn't a critical hit. Even a wind rushing Sorscha behind a wall is hit on average rolls from boosted charge attacks. And the sheer volume of pounding means that his damage output is really good. Sure you have an inaccurate low range gun. but you can't miss your opponent if you've already knocked him out.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 27, 2017 7:35:06 GMT
So why all the love for Strakhov specifically? Superiority is great, but he's not the only caster with it. Not to mention Redline, Full Throttle, and Infernal Machine are fairly comparable. Is it just the extra threat extension from his feat? Even without the feat Superiority and Overrun give you a huge non-linear threat range. Add the feat and you can reach out and touch something 20" away (not counting the use of Ram to gain a few extra inches). Now that Karchev lost Tow, no-one else in Khador even comes close. I think Vlad 1 comes closest with 14" using Feat and Boundless Charge (but that's linear as well)? Plus of course the MAT bonus is great for those high-DEF casters.
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Post by Netherby on May 27, 2017 7:56:47 GMT
In general you take the Grolar when you need a decent powered jack with built in pathfinder.
It is essentially a Juggernaut that has been given pathfinder, heavy boiler and traded 1 strength for k/d on hit + pushing and moving an inch. I don't actually think it pays a huge tax on the gun, because those are some pretty good rules. It still has the fist, so you get your second initial melee and it can throw stuff.
The gun would be amazing if it wasn't Rat 4. It's still decent in a number of roles. The k/d on the hammer means you usually won't be engaged and so can shoot at anything you want. It can be worth boosting a shot to take out a key support model and given you will have a minimum of 3 shots, you can just roll a few of them and see if you can get the 10 before spending to boost one.
Internally it is slightly too expensive to my mind, 17 or 16 points would be about right. But having a gun on a Khador jack seems to automatically make it cost 2 points more than it should. It's good with some casters while others won't really want to take it.
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Post by borderprince on May 27, 2017 10:33:12 GMT
So why all the love for Strakhov specifically? Superiority is great, but he's not the only caster with it. Not to mention Redline, Full Throttle, and Infernal Machine are fairly comparable. Is it just the extra threat extension from his feat? As Soul Samurai notes, it's the combination of feat and overrun that really makes the Grolar shine with Strakhov - it's a long threat range and it's not linear. As for other spells: Redline - lovely, but (1) there's no accuracy buff for that first crucial hit. Not essential in many situations, but it is for an assassination; (2) only on Malakov1, which makes it an ever larger points investment. But it does work relatively well with Strakhov1 in combination, but you lose the non-linear threat. When I've used Malakov1 with Strakhov1 I've generally given him a Juggernaut or Marauder for cheap hard-hitting, rather than being your assassination jack. Malakov takes out the armor, Strakhov can go for the throat. Full Throttle - works best when you have lots of jacks, rather than just one. You pay 3 Focus for the free charge and boosted melee. But the Grolar only needs the first melee hit to connect, after that it won't miss. On Butcher1, so no threat extension. You're usually better off with one and a half Juggernauts (preferably the right half, it has the axe). Infernal Machine - Very nice, but the threat extension is not linear. But side-step from Vlad3's feat might be handy in some circumstances. I don't think it's as simple as that. If I want a decent powered jack with Pathfinder and that's it, I would probably choose a Kodiak with Malakov1. Redline gets to P+S18 and the whole package is a point cheaper. I need to have a specific purpose in mind for the Grolar to make it worthwhile.
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Post by Netherby on May 27, 2017 14:36:06 GMT
Malakov1 only goes in one theme and can only fuel 1 jack, many feats don't affect his jack and he can be difficult to keep alive in some matches. Plenty of reasons why you take the 1 point more expensive option.
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Post by smoothcriminal on May 27, 2017 14:54:15 GMT
I'm being Facetious, but technically everything is more accurate/ Damaging when boosted and with support. The question is it worthwhile spending points or just drop it down by 3 or so, and remove the niche gun. Or is it the few times that it actually synchronizes with certain casters worth it if it's a pretty garbage gun on its own (And the situations where its useful are INCREDIBLY Niche for an Innacurate, short ranged gun on the weaker end of the spectrum)? I would agree with you if it was just a jack with a gun, but the Dual attack changes a lot, it allows for Grolar to set up targets by himself. You can charge/trample (through a forest, mind you) + shoot and suddenly you have quite the long threat range on your 8" gun or maneuver in the back of something. Don't forget that while accuracy buffs are rare in Khador, spd buffs aren't. You can throw/slam things into other things and then shoot them all, that's a potent assassination run from a 18 pts model by itself. Malakov here will come handy with his +2 str buff for throws. You can open up LOS on things in the back by hammering things in the front.
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Post by Netherby on May 27, 2017 16:14:38 GMT
I think it's fair to say that if you could get a Grolar minus the gun for 14 you would see a heck of a lot of that jack.
But I think the rules on that model are worth at least 16 points.
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