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Post by Trollock on May 24, 2017 14:40:21 GMT
have just read rounds 1 and 2 so far. how did a fennblade that threatens 11" (12" if you dash) reach Magnus without activating within 12" of him?  |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724 
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Post by Arcaux on May 24, 2017 14:52:48 GMT
have just read rounds 1 and 2 so far. how did a fennblade that threatens 11" (12" if you dash) reach Magnus without activating within 12" of him? They threaten 13 inches with mini feat.... ;-) |
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Post by vyroid on May 24, 2017 15:01:52 GMT
I know it might be a sore spot since it turned into a loss, but I'm curious of your thought process when you turned down the concession.
- Did you feel it was a cheap win?
- Were you wanting to get more time in at the table against the WTC player to test your skill/list?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 24, 2017 16:41:01 GMT
I know it might be a sore spot since it turned into a loss, but I'm curious of your thought process when you turned down the concession. - Did you feel it was a cheap win? - Were you wanting to get more time in at the table against the WTC player to test your skill/list? I have trouble changing my attitude between casual and competitive. I let opponents have take backs most of the time and just generally try and be an enjoyable opponent. If my opponent in a casual game conceded I'd coach him through it and we'd talk about why it wasn't over and what he should do. I autopilotted and did the same thing here. It was a stupid mistake, but I should have still easily won the game. My mistake was regretting the decision and going on tilt. |
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Post by Trollock on May 24, 2017 16:41:14 GMT
have just read rounds 1 and 2 so far. how did a fennblade that threatens 11" (12" if you dash) reach Magnus without activating within 12" of him? They threaten 13 inches with mini feat.... ;-) hahahah! i suck |
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Post by vyroid on May 24, 2017 18:00:12 GMT
I know it might be a sore spot since it turned into a loss, but I'm curious of your thought process when you turned down the concession. - Did you feel it was a cheap win? - Were you wanting to get more time in at the table against the WTC player to test your skill/list? I have trouble changing my attitude between casual and competitive. I let opponents have take backs most of the time and just generally try and be an enjoyable opponent. If my opponent in a casual game conceded I'd coach him through it and we'd talk about why it wasn't over and what he should do. I autopilotted and did the same thing here. It was a stupid mistake, but I should have still easily won the game. My mistake was regretting the decision and going on tilt. I can see that. I've only been playing a year, and nothing competitive yet. We've got some pretty decent players in my local meta who play tight games. I often feel like the game is over when I lose a major piece, or when a beast whiffs every attack and dies without putting in any work. I do try to play it out though, as its a good learning experience. It is hard to keep a positive mindset though, and I'm working on that. It's so easy to tilt. |
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Post by vyroid on May 24, 2017 18:02:35 GMT
I have trouble changing my attitude between casual and competitive. I let opponents have take backs most of the time and just generally try and be an enjoyable opponent. If my opponent in a casual game conceded I'd coach him through it and we'd talk about why it wasn't over and what he should do. I autopilotted and did the same thing here. It was a stupid mistake, but I should have still easily won the game. My mistake was regretting the decision and going on tilt. I can see that. I've only been playing a year, and nothing competitive yet. We've got some pretty decent players in my local meta who play tight games. I often feel like the game is over when I lose a major piece, or when a beast whiffs every attack and dies without putting in any work. I do try to play it out though (usually losing as I had thought), as its a good learning experience. It is hard to keep a positive mindset though, and I'm working on that. It's so easy to tilt. |
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Post by Trollock on May 24, 2017 19:55:17 GMT
Now i have read the whole thing. Congrats on a very good performance! And thanks for the write up. Not accepting a forfeit is noble and all, but should perhaps not be the golden standard. "forcing" you opponent to keep playing while you are winning could be construed as bad manners. Good thing you lost that game eh? btw... did you admonition the EBDT twice in the same turn that final game? |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 25, 2017 7:46:15 GMT
Now i have read the whole thing. Congrats on a very good performance! And thanks for the write up. Not accepting a forfeit is noble and all, but should perhaps not be the golden standard. "forcing" you opponent to keep playing while you are winning could be construed as bad manners. Good thing you lost that game eh? btw... did you admonition the EBDT twice in the same turn that final game? I definitely don't think other people should not accept concessions. It was mostly because this was the top of 2 and he was so clearly not beaten. I wouldn't stop a player conceding normally and I shouldn't have done so there. My mouth moved faster than my brain.
I didn't Admo twice in the same turn. The 7th game write up was a bit of a mess. I was tired and my memort struggles, plus I've written about 6000 words of battle reports this week.
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Post by grimgor on May 25, 2017 23:11:40 GMT
Thanks for your report i did read it all, and it was very interesting. I saw the match Khador/troll with Toby nathan on your youtube, do you know which list did he pair with madrak 3 ? (very strange list without any heavy beast)
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 26, 2017 0:05:05 GMT
Thanks for your report i did read it all, and it was very interesting. I saw the match Khador/troll with Toby nathan on your youtube, do you know which list did he pair with madrak 3 ? (very strange list without any heavy beast) Yeah he paired it with a Doomy3 list that is almost identical to mine. He swaps one of the shamans for Janissa, which is totally understandable: Doomy3 - Mountain King - Mulg - Earthborn - Axer - Storm Max Stone + UA Shaman Janissa Whelps |
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Post by grimgor on May 26, 2017 6:20:48 GMT
I played a doomy3/madrak3 on a team tournament, but i did regret it as there is obvious counters (mortality for example...), so i prefer your pairing. And on this tournament i encounter a grim 2, this was very annoying. Do you know why he played 3 lights with his madrak 3 list and why did he make these choices ? (i understand your meta was with ghost fleet, but is there anothers reasons ? (And if he were the first troll on this master, i think he was right.) I forgot that u can play the stone for denying stealth, as i was thinking that u can't sacrifice the stone for it, but you made 2 KTC thanks to that, so i will remenber this  On your denny 1 game, Were you all in when u went on KTC ? Do you think u can still play attrition game against her with your grissel list and even winning ? Do you think Doomy 2 has a place instead of doomy 3 ? But i think doomy 3 is better in much situations. I really like your write up for the last game, it should have been an intense game. Didn't you want to play doomy 3 in all cygnar matchups ? Thank you for your answer.  |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 26, 2017 8:03:14 GMT
I played a doomy3/madrak3 on a team tournament, but i did regret it as there is obvious counters (mortality for example...), so i prefer your pairing. And on this tournament i encounter a grim 2, this was very annoying. Do you know why he played 3 lights with his madrak 3 list and why did he make these choices ? (i understand your meta was with ghost fleet, but is there anothers reasons ? (And if he were the first troll on this master, i think he was right.) I forgot that u can play the stone for denying stealth, as i was thinking that u can't sacrifice the stone for it, but you made 2 KTC thanks to that, so i will remenber this On your denny 1 game, Were you all in when u went on KTC ? Do you think u can still play attrition game against her with your grissel list and even winning ? Do you think Doomy 2 has a place instead of doomy 3 ? But i think doomy 3 is better in much situations. I really like your write up for the last game, it should have been an intense game. Didn't you want to play doomy 3 in all cygnar matchups ? Thank you for your answer. I think people assume a lot about playing against Doomy3. They think that grevious wounds is an auto win, but really it doesn't work on the MK and at best you've got rid of my feat. There aren't many lists that attrition well into Doomy3 with access to mass grevious. In reality the things Doomy doesn't want to see are dude spam weapon masters. This basically means Retribution with double sentinals or Strakhov2/Irusk2. Even then thanks to deafen some of these matchups are playable.
I spoke to Toby about the three lights. He liked the flexibility that they offered and rarely had a problem cracking arm, the list has a lot of weapon masters and was usually going against lists with 2 jacks and lots of troops. The one time I think it became an issue was the Vlad1 rocket list, which has 5 heavies in it as well. You have to accept some bad matchups though. In return they gave him earth's blessing, far strike and a damage buff. He intends to play Madrak high up the board and kill heavies himself. I think that Mauler and Impaler might be another option as well, but you'd then be playing 3 points down. Mauler Earthborn might be another option but then you're getting less from thrown spear. The list seems absolutely solid and I watched him play a lot on the weekend, because I had a lot of quick assassinations and he played a lot of long attrition games.
Your opponents will forget about stealth removal on your stone as well. It's a great tool. Depending on the matchup I sometimes run it up to remove stealth on infantry though be aware you'll probably lose the armour aura in your turn and always ask your opponent about their RFP options before doing this. If your stone gets RFP'd when no unit member is within 3 inches to take up then it's gone forever!
In the Denny game he over extends to kill all the Fennblades, because he believes he can't win the long game, unless they are dead. If I don't punish him for this over extension then I have no doubt I lose. If he plays safer he doesn't kill as many Fennblades and we have a decent attrition battle. I think he would win if we played the exact same matchup again though, we spoke about it and I reckon he can make the Wraith Engine corporeal and hide behind it.
Doomy2 is certainly getting good results. There is the American player who made Masters final twice this year and locally we have a player who is using it well. Out of the two lists, I prefer:
Doomy2 - Mulg - Bomber - Mauler - Mauler - Earthborn - Axer Min Stone + UA Whelps Whelps Janissa
The Bomber means you have some kind of ranged removal and an assassination threat to keep their caster honest. I also don't personally think you can play the double mauler, double Earthborn version in the UK as the list deals with troops relatively poorly. Doomy2 is good, but to me he's very linear. He scares people with massive threat ranges, but I don't think it plays the Cygnar matchup well enough and in Europe that's a main consideration. A lot of it depends on your own playstyle.
And finally yes, I probably should have dropped Doomy3 into Nemo3 in that fifth game. I think it was a mistake that led to the only game I felt I had no chance of winning over the whole weekend. I'm not convinced we have a great Haley3 answer though.
No, thank you, for reading!
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Post by grimgor on May 26, 2017 8:49:25 GMT
Thanks for this detailled answer ! I played doomy 2 a bit, and i noted that people didn't expect how far you can go, and then they aren't enough careful and dont take measures. But for me the real threat range against heavies spam are 12' as u can't play rush and rage at the same time. I played yesterday a doomy 2 list with 2 EDBT, 2 mauler and mulg against amon. i think it was properly a no-match as i can't handle enliven with parry (fortify that you can't hex blast so no head bot). I thought doomy 3 should have been better on this matchup. Do you think you can play grissel 2 on this match up ? I believed that deafen didn't work on leader if u kill him, i was wrong ? In fact if u kill the leader of one unit, the new leader can't give orders ? For the toby's match against khador on youtube, do you know why he didn't play doomy 3, it should have been correct against vlad 1 no ? And do you know the macths he plays against cryx (and won it), i'm very interested in, as i have problems to play against them. I feel in your feed back that you were going often on assassination run with grissel 2 because u can't win it with a different way. This seems to be a little disturbing for the faction. And as we are talking about it combo smite on youtube just upload a doomy3/Strakhov2 matchup won by doomy 3 And otherwise i hope my english is enough understandable |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 26, 2017 9:28:49 GMT
Thanks for this detailled answer ! I played doomy 2 a bit, and i noted that people didn't expect how far you can go, and then they aren't enough careful and dont take measures. But for me the real threat range against heavies spam are 12' as u can't play rush and rage at the same time. I played yesterday a doomy 2 list with 2 EDBT, 2 mauler and mulg against amon. i think it was properly a no-match as i can't handle enliven with parry (fortify that you can't hex blast so no head bot). I thought doomy 3 should have been better on this matchup. Do you think you can play grissel 2 on this match up ? I believed that deafen didn't work on leader if u kill him, i was wrong ? In fact if u kill the leader of one unit, the new leader can't give orders ? For the toby's match against khador on youtube, do you know why he didn't play doomy 3, it should have been correct against vlad 1 no ? And do you know the macths he plays against cryx (and won it), i'm very interested in, as i have problems to play against them. I feel in your feed back that you were going often on assassination run with grissel 2 because u can't win it with a different way. This seems to be a little disturbing for the faction. And as we are talking about it combo smite on youtube just upload a doomy3/Strakhov2 matchup won by doomy 3 And otherwise i hope my english is enough understandable Your English is fine!
I don't think Grissel can play into Amon, I think I would drop Doomy3. Admonition can be used to counter Enliven and you have a turn where they can't really kill anything. It depends on what they lose and effective piece trading. I do like the storm troll for killing Choir members, Many Menoth players only have 1 min choir. If you can kill them their damage potential drops greatly.
You're correct on Deafen, There isn't always a target that can survive a Pow 16, but some do exist. Arcane shielded stormlances or Uhlans in Base to base are personal favourites. As are Sentinals under mini feat.
I don't think you can play Doomy3 into vlad, maybe I'm wrong. The vlad1 list I see has 2 marauders. They feel like they would wreck my Mountain king on Vlad's feat.
Toby played Madrak3 into cryx. He played my opponent Ryan in one round. Ryan only lost 2 games all weekend, to me and Toby and he's claiming Trolls are the hard counter to Ghost fleet semi jokingly. Their match was super grindy and the Madrak3 list performed really well in a long attrition game.
Yes, I often went for assassinations because I felt backed into a corner. Part of that was because it was a two list format. I feel in a 3 list format that my lists could be more specialised and I can play a much better attrition game with Grissel2 in the POD theme.
I'd be very interested to see that combo smite video. I must confess I'm a little sceptical, but I'm always willing to learn.
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