Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on May 18, 2017 1:01:10 GMT
Legion is far better than its own players give it credit for in mk3, and worse than other players who remember mk2 think it is.
You'll have to just endure the flak from players who have their heads stuck in mk2. Encourage people to just play the game and not fuss so much, and just deflect baited arguments into power balance. Or, better yet, swap armies and let them see the world with blighted eyes for a game. One of the more hardcore metas I know of routinely does tournament prep in the form of playing games, and then swapping armies and playing the match again so they know their own army and they know their opponent's armies.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 18, 2017 13:09:24 GMT
Next time you Vs a known whiner, tell them you want to practice your list designed to play into a "gunline", then drop this list and watch as they get salty all over again.
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - abs 1 mother of all characters
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Absylonia, Terror of Everblight - WB: +31 - Proteus - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Azrael - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Typhon - PC: 24 - Zuriel - PC: 18
The Forsaken - PC: 4 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1
Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6
---
GENERATED : 05/18/2017 08:06:52 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by neutralyze on May 18, 2017 14:49:54 GMT
Next time you Vs a known whiner, tell them you want to practice your list designed to play into a "gunline", then drop this list and watch as they get salty all over again. War Room Army Legion of Everblight - abs 1 mother of all characters Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Absylonia, Terror of Everblight - WB: +31 - Proteus - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Azrael - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Typhon - PC: 24 - Zuriel - PC: 18 The Forsaken - PC: 4 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6 --- GENERATED : 05/18/2017 08:06:52 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16 Why would they get salty? Good gunlines can finish two of those off before you even get to feat. Also instigati f people to whine isn't what we want.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 18, 2017 15:19:49 GMT
I've run Saeryn one with all the characters and double hellmouths for fun. That was pretty 'nope' to shooting. But you're trading a feat against a ranged alpha, not something i find great. But after getting hunkered down in the zone and engaged, it was pretty sweet. I'm starting to like Saeryn's kit. I just hate her lack of getting things moving. She's a slow game caster through and through.
Now if i want to ruin people's day I take Lylyth 2 an Archangel and 5 bolt throwers (then 11 points in "oh god the fury problems"). Just keep thunderbolting the crap out of their jacks. Feat turn puts out 10 +(d3+2) range 10 pow 14 eyeless sight shots. See how fun that is. Actually under CoD I could take 9 bolt throwers and get way more shots and free solos. 18 pow 14s should do some work with pin cushion.
Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it that would be horrifying. 18 shots from the beasts alone. I want to do this just to mine some salt. I need a lot of proxy bases...
Edit2: So to go to the extreme, if you boosted every damage roll under pincushion (I'm low balling it as a +2, it could spike way better than that) 18 shots would average 126 damage against Arm 19. That's 2.25 Stormwalls. If the Stormwall is under Arcane shield, cuz when is it not, you're looking at 72 damage. That would be 1.28 Stormwalls.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 18, 2017 17:23:15 GMT
I've run Saeryn one with all the characters and double hellmouths for fun. That was pretty 'nope' to shooting. But you're trading a feat against a ranged alpha, not something i find great. But after getting hunkered down in the zone and engaged, it was pretty sweet. I'm starting to like Saeryn's kit. I just hate her lack of getting things moving. She's a slow game caster through and through. Now if i want to ruin people's day I take Lylyth 2 an Archangel and 5 bolt throwers (then 11 points in "oh god the fury problems"). Just keep thunderbolting the crap out of their jacks. Feat turn puts out 10 +(d3+2) range 10 pow 14 eyeless sight shots. See how fun that is. Actually under CoD I could take 9 bolt throwers and get way more shots and free solos. 18 pow 14s should do some work with pin cushion. Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it that would be horrifying. 18 shots from the beasts alone. I want to do this just to mine some salt. I need a lot of proxy bases... Edit2: So to go to the extreme, if you boosted every damage roll under pincushion (I'm low balling it as a +2, it could spike way better than that) 18 shots would average 126 damage against Arm 19. That's 2.25 Stormwalls. If the Stormwall is under Arcane shield, cuz when is it not, you're looking at 72 damage. That would be 1.28 Stormwalls. You only get all 9 shots to shoot and boost in one turn against a bad player. Lylyth does absolutely nothing to protect her army so expect to lose a few Bolt Throwers before your big turn. Also, there are many armies in the game which straight up shut down shooting. Those would give a light shooting spam list a very hard time. Consider that, with that list, you are basically playing the same game as Kara Sloan; except that Sloan is more resource efficient, her gun shots hit harder, she can spread out more, and she is more accurate. Still, how often do you see her played at tournaments?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 18, 2017 19:26:56 GMT
You are taking that idea way to seriously. I know it has a bunch of weaknesses. But I know at my local meta it would ruin their day. I can easily protect my stuff from them before my feat turn. In a tournament there would probably be a ton of stuff to dissuade playing such a numb skull list. But the fact i know the lists my meta whinners usually bring i could run that.
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Post by newsun on May 18, 2017 19:32:25 GMT
Well if you know their lists and think you have skills which are being overlooked, maybe build something you think their lists are designed to beat and then still beat them and then try for discussion.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 19, 2017 14:13:27 GMT
Next time you Vs a known whiner, tell them you want to practice your list designed to play into a "gunline", then drop this list and watch as they get salty all over again. War Room Army Legion of Everblight - abs 1 mother of all characters Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Absylonia, Terror of Everblight - WB: +31 - Proteus - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Azrael - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Typhon - PC: 24 - Zuriel - PC: 18 The Forsaken - PC: 4 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6 --- GENERATED : 05/18/2017 08:06:52 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16 Why would they get salty? Good gunlines can finish two of those off before you even get to feat. Also instigati f people to whine isn't what we want. sorry, sarcasm was implied....any list you throw at them is gonna leave salty pools on their side of the table, too bad there isn't anything amphibious in our faction that could dive right in and gain cover.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 19, 2017 17:02:08 GMT
You are taking that idea way to seriously. I know it has a bunch of weaknesses. But I know at my local meta it would ruin their day. I can easily protect my stuff from them before my feat turn. In a tournament there would probably be a ton of stuff to dissuade playing such a numb skull list. But the fact i know the lists my meta whinners usually bring i could run that. Was...was your post a joke? Was I supposed to laugh, or to seriously consider your propositions and provide feedback? If the former, you should use indicators like "lol" or "JK;" if the latter, then how could someone possibly "take [your] idea too seriously "?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 19, 2017 17:06:26 GMT
then why did you waste time and energy going over the faults if you knew it was a joke? Internets make judging sarcasm difficult but you're flipping back and forth between perspective that I don't know what to say. so... *shrug*
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 19, 2017 17:12:51 GMT
then why did you waste time and energy going over the faults if you knew it was a joke? Internets make judging sarcasm difficult but you're flipping back and forth between perspective that I don't know what to say. so... *shrug* No, I did NOT know it was a joke (because there is literally nothing in your post to indicate that it was anything but sincere). Maybe there's a language barrier or something, but I was not flipping through perspectives; I was identifying the two possible scenarios for the purpose of discussion. I said that IF you were joking, you should have included language to indicate that. It's called a hypothetical clause.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 19, 2017 17:15:33 GMT
Then I'm just reading into your wording wrong. I apologize.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 19, 2017 17:40:55 GMT
Apologies to all I didn't intend to get anyone riled up.
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Post by tarviche on May 19, 2017 18:40:37 GMT
I think Legion is good, with some lists being excellent, and people just have a hard time adapting to the faction because it's weird and very special-ability-driven.
As a Cryx player whose most frequent opponent is a Legion player, I get frustrated by stuff like Eyeless Sight because it invalidates some of my models. Mainstays like Cankerworm and Stalkers are made largely useless because Legion's shooting will trivially remove them, for example, and incorporeal models are often a liability instead of an advantage against the volume of magic attacks, especially in Oracles.
But this is just a matchup issue that arises in games where special abilities hard-counter other special abilities. It's something you have to learn to deal with. Legion seems like it has some really strong specific lists but a lot of stuff that's useless or redundant (a common issue in Mk3, it seems). Lylyth 3 and Fyanna 2 are rough, and a Lylyth2 gunline against my faction is a harrowing experience, but the bench isn't too deep, honestly. Legion seems to have plenty of difficult matchups of its own, too.
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Post by AtlasCrusader on May 19, 2017 19:57:11 GMT
I think Legion is good, with some lists being excellent, and people just have a hard time adapting to the faction because it's weird and very special-ability-driven. As a Cryx player whose most frequent opponent is a Legion player, I get frustrated by stuff like Eyeless Sight because it invalidates some of my models. Mainstays like Cankerworm and Stalkers are made largely useless because Legion's shooting will trivially remove them, for example, and incorporeal models are often a liability instead of an advantage against the volume of magic attacks, especially in Oracles. But this is just a matchup issue that arises in games where special abilities hard-counter other special abilities. It's something you have to learn to deal with. Legion seems like it has some really strong specific lists but a lot of stuff that's useless or redundant (a common issue in Mk3, it seems). Lylyth 3 and Fyanna 2 are rough, and a Lylyth2 gunline against my faction is a harrowing experience, but the bench isn't too deep, honestly. Legion seems to have plenty of difficult matchups of its own, too. I agree. Most people in my meta end up hating Legion shenanigans, since they feel that we invalidate anything. You have stealth? Eyeless Sight. Incorporeal? Caster spells, unit spells, solo, battle engine. Rough terrain? pathfinder+flying. High armor? Kiss+caster buff/debuff. I don't play attrition or scenario, my game plan is always assassination. And the few times that I get scenario, it's because the opponent is staying at bay trying to avoid getting assassinated. Don't get me wrong, attrition can be done with casters like Thags1 with 2 Carniveans and a Typhon. But where we shine is assassinating. So yeah, opponents are mindful and have a view of Legion being unstoppable if they play their tricks right. So get those slipstreams, overruns, battle hosts, feats, etc.. ready, cause we're going for the kill.
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