Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on May 16, 2017 22:18:50 GMT
At this point you should probably just find a way to draw energy from the rage tears of your opponents. "Man why does Warmachine have a player retention problem I just don't know" Actually, I was serious. Look at it this way: ForEver_Blight's play group's behavior is getting to the point where he doesn't even want to play his preferred Faction anymore. Their whining about stuff that's objectively not overpowered (for example Kryssa who can be generously described as a middling caster in the Faction let alone the game) is making it difficult if not impossible for him to enjoy the game. I'd classify that as poor sportsmanship at best and bullying at worst. I don't like bullies. Instead of backing down (no offense to ForEver_Blight here, I don't mean to imply cowardice or anything from him) personally I'd start hitting back metaphorically speaking which would take the shape of comments from myself such as "Cry more, your tears are so delicious" and "Tell me again how my heavies that cost almost 2x as much as yours are overpowered" and so on. Judge if you want, I don't really care either way. But I will say that I think people like ForEver_Blight is describing in his meta have a lot more to do with issues in the community than a guy who wants to be able to play Kryssa without being harassed out of his Faction.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 22:30:57 GMT
Look at it this way: ForEver_Blight's play group's behavior is getting to the point where he doesn't even want to play his preferred Faction anymore. And the answer to that is antagonize the people back, instead of talking about it like reasonable people. They will be so amazed by his trash talking skills they will enter a deep meditative state of self-reflection and will show up the next time eager to acknowledge their own problems. Whiners are wildly different from bullies. Bullies hurt you. Whiners just complain. "Get Gud Scrub" has never pacified a whiner. Also bullies often think that their targets deserve it for a real or imagined reason. So responding to whining with "HA, IM BETTER AND YOU SUCK" actually likely makes YOU a bully.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on May 17, 2017 0:23:18 GMT
Look at it this way: ForEver_Blight's play group's behavior is getting to the point where he doesn't even want to play his preferred Faction anymore. And the answer to that is antagonize the people back, instead of talking about it like reasonable people. They will be so amazed by his trash talking skills they will enter a deep meditative state of self-reflection and will show up the next time eager to acknowledge their own problems. Ok, we're done here.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 17, 2017 0:33:09 GMT
I have been playing legion as my one and only faction for about a year and a half....relatively new and every time I show up at the game shop I am ridiculed somehow for being a legion player.....their like "Oh you play legion" but I am now used to it.....slowly since MK3 started I am finding more people open to playing against me without complaint......until the match starts and the models begin to do what they do....which is more than their models do but then again they have more models on the table than me almost always and I am constantly having to play with piece trade n mind.......legion isn't overpowered it just has models that do more and cost more.
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Post by neutralyze on May 17, 2017 1:47:38 GMT
Really you can only take it in stride. When people constantly play and lose to a faction it is their natural reaction to complain. I've been playing legion and only legion since the day hordes was released. That was April 2006. People have a few options. After your games are done you can talk over the game with your opponent and discuss different moves and actions that could have been done better. I have never gained more knowledge than when I lose games. I ask and learn from those. Sadly, you will also get the people who will not adapt or learn to play against certain armies. You can try your best to help them but sometimes it won't work. They don't adapt and they just complain something is over powered because they don't like to lose. Don't take it personally. Also, Firetruck cygnar. I hate that faction .
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Post by newsun on May 17, 2017 2:04:23 GMT
Talk and learn, that's how to get better and for all to see where there are shortcomings in most models in the game.
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Post by Cryptix on May 17, 2017 4:08:30 GMT
Really you can only take it in stride. When people constantly play and lose to a faction it is their natural reaction to complain. I've been playing legion and only legion since the day hordes was released. That was April 2006. People have a few options. After your games are done you can talk over the game with your opponent and discuss different moves and actions that could have been done better. I have never gained more knowledge than when I lose games. I ask and learn from those. Sadly, you will also get the people who will not adapt or learn to play against certain armies. You can try your best to help them but sometimes it won't work. They don't adapt and they just complain something is over powered because they don't like to lose. Don't take it personally. Also, Firetruck cygnar. I hate that faction . "Every single human living on this dying earth today is an utter idiot who doesn't know the value of the word "sorry" and doesn't deserve the breath he's wasting. And I love 'em." -Anonymous.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on May 17, 2017 8:34:55 GMT
Really you can only take it in stride. When people constantly play and lose to a faction it is their natural reaction to complain. I've been playing legion and only legion since the day hordes was released. That was April 2006. People have a few options. After your games are done you can talk over the game with your opponent and discuss different moves and actions that could have been done better. I have never gained more knowledge than when I lose games. I ask and learn from those. Sadly, you will also get the people who will not adapt or learn to play against certain armies. You can try your best to help them but sometimes it won't work. They don't adapt and they just complain something is over powered because they don't like to lose. Don't take it personally. Also, Firetruck cygnar. I hate that faction . On this day you have received the benediction of Neuty. Study his words and hold them close to your heart. all snark aside, these a re genuinely words to live by. Especially the Cygnar part -und_ed
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 17, 2017 12:28:52 GMT
I wouldn't do that anyways. I like enjoying games, being generous, and letting both sides of the table learn. But a vacation does seem in order. A vacation from Legion is exactly the same as a player retention issue when the player has no interest in buying into another faction. I have Khador, Cryx, Circle, Minnions, and Legion. I'm just going to be playing one of these other factions for a while.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 17, 2017 14:00:06 GMT
I understand talking things over. Again I have one player who is by profession a teacher, and he has single handedly helped me nail down my playstyle, strengths and weaknesses, and helped me make my Kryssa list what it is. Without him I'd still be handing points to the enemy player on a silver platter. We woul literally spend hours going over lists, possible enemy list encounters, meta this and that.
However he is not the norm. I try my best to have a discussion after the games. Especially if I know the player is testing something. But only the casual players and newbies participate positively. (I put a ton of effort into orchestrating games where newbies can learn and win while still feeling they were under pressure to act)
The tournament vets always jump to, "well I lost because of this. everything else was fine." and it immediately shuts down the conversation. Granted since getting his storm lances penta-killed, Cygnar player has been trying to do things in theme and has actually asked what I thought about his model selection. Which the only real answer to that is "everything is really powerful". But it's like pulling teeth to get an legitimate intellectual assessment of my army and tactics. It gets blown off as "Hellmouths are stupid" or "I couldn't roll high enough to kill X model or It'd would have been easy for me". I always get a response of "If not for that I would have won". Instead of "that was really a really good placement" or "good use of X" or "You put out model Y as bait and I fell for it." And again I feel like I'm whining because people won't acknowledge I'm playing well (believe it! *cough* sorry).
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Post by althor on May 17, 2017 15:33:18 GMT
I'm part of a small group of players, khador, Cygnar, Skorne and Circle, but i mostly play versus circle.
He beats me one game out of ten and is always quite frustrated afer every game, as he feels he can't do anything. Though I redo the game with him and talk placement, jam, aggression.
He feels I ignore every one of his rules and he can't protect from anything. Even if i reply that not everybody has eyeless sight, he comes scared to the table and is not having real fun.
So as a friend, I have to change something. I tried different casters with the same result. Another factor is that i'm a "veteran" of many games, and he started a year ago. I tell him to be patient and that ther's a learning curve, I can tell he's not having fun.
So for the next games i'm gonna switch lists with him and show him that I can (hopefully) manage something working with his list and that blight is not autowin versus circle.
And after that i'll try and proxy a menoth army probably, just to have him face something very very different.
So to reply to the OP, I do have the same behavior around me, and it leads me not playing what I want... but I prefer that than not playing at all...
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Post by Cheesebeard on May 17, 2017 15:45:34 GMT
I always offer to talk after a game – even if not immediately after (when the salt is flowing) – and will review the pictures I took each turn, if they really want to buckle down. If you have the equivalent of a PG, or a community leader of some sort, talking to them can help bring someone in to help put the community on track.
Some people are poor sports, though, and will just not be up for a cooperative exercise, regardless of the outcome. In that case, it's up to you if you want to work on improving their social character; some people honestly don't realize how unpleasant they're being, and some don't care.
Ultimately, if it's negatively affecting your gameplay experience, it's worth having a conversation of some sort to explain how it's making the game less enjoyable for you, and you may find that's all that's needed. In my local meta, we have a chat (multiple, sometimes) where we all go on about Warmachine all day, and will recap our games there, share thoughts on lists, etc., and I think it's been a positive experience. I've since moved away from that meta, but still keep in touch through the same chats.
It's not a simple situation, it's a complex one, and nothing any of us suggest here is going to fit particularly well with your situation – it's up to you to take that last step. The Legion community is pretty great, though, and you should feel free to continue the conversation as you work through this – and maybe some others struggling with similar issues will benefit from what's being covered.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 17, 2017 16:54:44 GMT
Well that sucks to hear, but It's unlikely that playing a different faction will help. The game is in many ways about Psychology, and how things feel. Khadoran Jacks Feel Indestructible (Doesn't help that they have good defensive stats). The Legion Feels unstoppable (Doesn't help they ignore so many stuff). Anyway, could you please change your signature? I got my calculations wrong. Its about 5% odds not 1.5%.
I'd say the game improves massively when you know the odds. The Hellmouth feels like BS until you know what it needs to be defeated.
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Post by fatherlucant on May 17, 2017 18:02:35 GMT
Switch to Khador and show them what broken really is. After they cry about it switch back.
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Post by zorrobard47 on May 18, 2017 0:54:31 GMT
That's funny Legion is perceived as broken. I wonder if the problem is that your opponents need to try another faction. Or you could switch factions for a change in perspective.
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