Personally I really like Kae in shadows, I normally end up with a gorging or two on elara
Not a fan of the Gorgon myself, but this is purely based on looking at the card, I have never tried it in game. It just looks meeh and expensive.
I have run double Gorgon under Elara quite regularly and I think it is actually pretty good. She allocates one to each of them upkeeps SOD and camps one. That gives them each a fully boosted shot if you are playing against something natively slow like Trolls or Khador you can keep two heavies out of the game for almost an extra turn and a half and with SOD the can shoot and scoot indefinitely.
so as my next "expansion" of sorts to my army, I'm thinking about building something along the lines of the following, basically using the theme for the +1 to start roll and the free solos and mostly ignoring the effect on melee kills for no tough and RFP. I only got recently started with Ret, so I don't own most of this and don't have a ton of experience, but I like the idea of having a lot of shots that potentially ignore LOS on a feat turn that gives me additional dice on ranged damage rolls. anyways:
Ossyan -Hypnos -Banshee -Hydra
arcanist x2 MHA x2 Narn (free) Eiryss1 (free)
max MHSF+UA x2
the general idea being play aggressive with Ossyan to catch important pieces in his feat (preferably the enemy caster and important support pieces), hit a major target with Hypnos for shadow bind (future sight boosted fortune shot should almost guarantee that), and then minifeat with the MHSF units to target things behind forests, clouds, or intervening models, throw in Eiryss1 phantom seeker for some more non-LOS fun, and knock down something important with the Banshee to clear LOS for the Hydra for a 4-dice POW 15 shot. obviously there's holes in this plan, but that's still going to be something in the realm of 24 shots that ignore most LOS blocks with at least 1 additional die on a feat turn, giving me a ton of room to remove important enemy support models, a lot of jack damage, and ideally even getting a quick assassination.
is this a really dumb idea I've cooked up in my inexperienced mind or am I right in thinking is this potentially a real nasty thing to deal with, if only due to sheer volume of dice? it's a lot of eggs in 1 basket, and there's really not a lot of purpose to the MHAs and Narn being there other than I had an extra free card and needed to fill out points, and didn't think adding another jack would really get me anything, at least until we see more numbers on the Vyre lights. would I be better off retooling a bit to work in a Spears with Eiryss3 to work with the MHAs and Narn for some more powerful melee presence? or is there something else I'm blatantly missing that would really screw up my idea that isn't caused by whatever my opponent is playing or bad terrain?
Id drop the hydra for infiltrators and put E3 on them. Tjst way you can screen your guns for a better chance for a good feat. Its really hard to play all guns and no screen, if you drop into a defensive feat youve gotta weather the storm to wait it out before you can feat. Jamming them up with infiltrators does that for you. I do it with swordsmen in defenders with Ossyan but effectively the infiltrators can do the same thing. Shoot what you can with strike force then charge them in and repo to engage as much as you can. That will do more work for your list than 1 turn of a pow 15 4 dice gun.
I have run the proposed list with your Hydra replaced with Infiltrators and an Arcanist and have to agree that a screening unit can be very useful. It also gives you melee RFP. I agree that Eiryss3 can be useful on them but found that Quicken helps compensate for the lack of AD.
If you are still putting an army together, though, just run the Hydra. It generates decent damage output (at a fairly long range) if you can shoot with it every turn.
Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Oct 11, 2017 19:54:34 GMT
Personally I really like Shadows, I feel that it is a fairly solid theme. Ossyan and Issy both like double MHSF, Thyron can actually make good work out of infiltrators, and Vyros1 likes them for the fast pathfinder jam unit. Its not a incredibly deep theme but it has its perks. I actually feel that Ret as a whole has a lot of reason to play out of theme as our themes (minus defenders) don't actually provide that much for us and we give up some powerful tools to get them. (Impy/Disco)
I think it is decent, it is just a hammer. No subtlety and if the opponent is prepared for it no alternative path to victory. I'm not sold on ossyan with it as without a decent hit buff he cannot really perform well. Any opponent that can utilize terrain will destroy him. Rerolls on attacks is not enough.
So this theme has been out for awhile, and besides ghost fleet. What else would you drop this list into?
This list seems to not hit hard enough, or is this fixed by something I missed?
I just feel like I don't understand what this theme is really supposed to do.
Thanks for any help, sorry if this sounded like more of a tiny rant.
I thought the same thing about Will of the Nine Voices in mk2. Ravyn with 3 Mage Hunter Strike Forces and Stormfall Archers seemed woefully inadequate. It turned out that Jack Hunter really makes a difference and Mage Hunter Strike Force can play into most of Warmachine as a result (don't forget that you also get an extra damage die when you charge, which can come in handy in the mid to late game). That said, even Ossyan with double Strike Force has problems chewing through Karchev and 8 Heavies but on the bright side you should be able to assassinate relatively easily if you can hold your feat (Karchev specifically takes damage as a warjack, so POW 10 4d shots through intervening models on feat turn will hurt).
The all-round Hordes build probably has to be Vyros1 with infiltrators and a bunch of 'jacks, making it a less fluffy way to build Shadows but nevertheless effective.
I can imagine that other builds would be effective against a couple of specific Hordes list, though. Makeda max murder kitties hates that Infiltrators hit accurately, have multiple attacks, and ignore Tough. Circle Griffons and similar Lights will take serious damage from low-POW attacks. I think Issyria's feat can probably help with accuracy and damage output and Crusader's Call gives a very respectable threat range on Infiltrators (at least against Circle).
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 12, 2017 12:18:59 GMT
I have played against a Issyria - Shadows list several times recently, it is pretty damn scary if you are playing Warmachine. S&P Strike Force do a real number on jacks, Blinding Light hard counters most Battle Engines, MHA threat for miles with Crusaders Call, everything being stealthy is a right pain in the butt, Nairn and Eiryss 1 are terrifying, and you can never move up far in the opening turns without getting in range of all the Strike Force
Ossyan is a beast in Shadows and can even play in some bad match ups. If your meta is heavy on colossals, you can easily delete one at range with this theme. If your meta is very Hordes heavy, then I suggest you look into Defenders.