gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on Mar 13, 2018 20:25:04 GMT
Thagrosh2 with Typhon's animus is nice, but I'm looking at getting a 14/24 Thagrosh with a Carnivean. I considered that to take the extra two points to get me some Spell Martyrs, but Thags2 should really be playing so far forward that he won't be using Scourge often unless already in range. The list already has so many ways to mitigate high defense anyway didn't seem to have point. Also, Typhon makes way more use of the Withering Ash aura than the Carnivean would.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 13, 2018 19:34:12 GMT
Toying with this list: War Room Army Legion of Everblight - thags2 Oracles Theme: Oracles of Annihilation 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Thagrosh, the Messiah - WB: +25 - Blightbringer - PC: 32 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25) - Typhon - PC: 20 - Seraph - PC: 14 - Naga Nightlurker - PC: 8 - Neraph - PC: 12 - Neraph - PC: 12 Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 THEME: Oracles of Annihilation --- GENERATED : 03/13/2018 15:24:03 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21 At first I thought "I'm wasting the Blightbringer", but then I realized that even his concealemnt aura is useful in it. Defense 15/16 isn't trivial to hit (or at least it isn't SUPPOSED to be, thanks Cygnar), and if I really need to I can get Thagrosh2 up to 14/22+d3. The list has good versatility in that the Xaphs and Typhon can use it to either pay offense or run away. The Nagah gets prowl and running away if he wants, uses his animus to make the Blightbringer hurt at range. Late game I've got a beefy Thags2, Blightbringer, and Typhon to anchor things, none of whom are easy to ignore their return attacks. Also fully loaded Forsaken under the Str/Arm buff are no joke, which they will likely be by late game. Grievous Wounds are a problem. Aggravator on Typhon with Excessive Healing and Dragons Blood actually does something! Hooray! I'm finally not wasting my time casting it! But the ultimate dream for this list is to actually use the character bond on Typhon to do something useful on Thagrosh2. I figure with the amount of fire he might end up taking it could come into play.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 13, 2018 19:24:28 GMT
Toying with this list:
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - thags2 Oracles
Theme: Oracles of Annihilation 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Thagrosh, the Messiah - WB: +25 - Blightbringer - PC: 32 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25) - Typhon - PC: 20 - Seraph - PC: 14 - Naga Nightlurker - PC: 8 - Neraph - PC: 12 - Neraph - PC: 12
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
THEME: Oracles of Annihilation ---
GENERATED : 03/13/2018 15:24:03 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 13, 2018 18:50:02 GMT
Anybody else notice that they changed Typhon's animus to gain Rapid Healing so that he doesn't conflict with Abby... Who can't actually play him anyway? (Yes, I know, out of theme, but clearly they haven't cared about developing towards that in forever).
Makes me wonder if they are planning on opening Typhon up to themes soon...
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 13, 2018 18:20:28 GMT
Changes but not the new model rules o.0? I may be daft but has that been the norm? New model rules only get released when the new models are released. Reading that again sounds snarky, but isn't supposed to be. I had a similar concern because the new Rotwings were incredibly underwhelming and I am curious to see if Chosen remain good or if the saboteurs got their way.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 13, 2018 16:32:20 GMT
Err.. the Hex Hunters are effectively Spd8 in Oracles which is the same as quite a lot of Cav. If you slipsteam a few of them - they have a melee threat of 13.5" which is very respectable. I often slipsteam 2 of them, sometimes 3. If you can shadow bind or stationary the front Battle Engine or Cav, the rest of the army can be trapped behind it. Its really good. Its amazing how often one of them misses when it needs to not miss though! I hadn't considered slip streaming them. Seems a bit "square peg - round hole" for one grunt, but clearly it works out perfectly well under certain circumstances.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 12, 2018 21:31:46 GMT
What am I missing about Hex Hunters and cavalry? I don't see the interaction. Having said all that, I think Thrones do make make Vayls feat much more usable. It looks like a solid list. Oh, and back before themes I got to play Vayl1 with Banshees. OMG that spray is amazing under Incite. Though it's very risky that Vayl will live long while getting close enough for them use it. Because Cav is likely to survive the charge, but can't shake shadowbind would be my guess Argh, I was confusing Hex Bolt with Shadowbind, my bad! Though how you would ever survive to melee their Cavalry with Hex Hunters is beyond me...
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 12, 2018 18:25:57 GMT
Hex Hunters Jam really well. And with Feat are really funny vs Cav. I can see some Oralces double thrones Max Hex Hunters, Anglius list being quite entertaining to play. Ice witches sprays under incite sound really good too. What am I missing about Hex Hunters and cavalry? I don't see the interaction. Having said all that, I think Thrones do make make Vayls feat much more usable. It looks like a solid list. Oh, and back before themes I got to play Vayl1 with Banshees. OMG that spray is amazing under Incite. Though it's very risky that Vayl will live long while getting close enough for them use it.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on Mar 9, 2018 17:24:43 GMT
I played Vayl1 a lot in both Mk2 and Mk3. Like anything in Legion, it is trivially removed by shooting. She has even less defense against it than most. Her feat is "okay". You can build for it. She simply doesn't have any hitting power without Incite, and she can't ever safely use Incite with her new feat. So I've found she works best in waves: first round is Angelius and short range ranged attacks, who then retreat under feat to relative safety. Since they won't have offensive benefits, they won't do a lot but they will get away often without reprisal. Second round is go all in with Incite any hope you've done enough damage with your two rounds to win or at least keep Vayl safe.
I'm my experience, she doubles down on what Legion is good at and what Legion is bad at. She makes her army incredibly maneuverable and she had even less staying power than the rest of Legion. In the new meta of "guns & jacks", she ends up incredibly difficult to use. You need to get in extremely close to make her army perform near their points values, and her best defense against ranged attacks is to pray for a generous table.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 7, 2018 22:01:26 GMT
With how important holding zones and flags are, Celtari are one of those odd units that do really well in "push" lists. Karax is an instant stopper, especially on mini-feat, and can block LoS for something close to the length of a ruler. I tend to look at them as a "mobile sacrificial wall." Celtari, on the other hand, hold their zone and can score zones much easier. Also, as an FYI, where the hell did you get 18 for the average heavy hit? *takes a peak at the bronzeback only having 17* The average character jack doesn't even have an 18 hit -.- Your average heavy should be calculated at around 16 with 3 dice on the first hit only, 2 innitials, and 3 extras at 16. Each di should be around 3.5 extra damage leading to a single hit being averaged at 23, 26-27 on the boost. Because I've never in my life seen a Bronzeback, or any other Titan for that matter, strike only PS16. Paingivers are in every theme for a reason. Same thing with Choir in Menoth, etc.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 7, 2018 21:41:34 GMT
This is a great list. Frustrates me that it leans so heavily on huge bases that I'm too cheap to buy but... Its still a great way to make Vayl 1 work
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 6, 2018 14:06:10 GMT
I wish PP would just fix our theme lists. The whole 'run more infantry' attitude was as lazy as it was appauling for a faction that they'd built up over 10 years to be beast-heavy. CoTD and Ravens should have no beast restrictions, just rules to emphasize and encourage some beasts over others. If all beasts were available in CoTD, nephilim would still have the advantage of unyielding, and that could make them more compelling than similar choices in that theme list specifically. Meanwhile, Ravens could also have all warbeasts and just have some bonus specifically to flying warbeasts (+2 SPD on the first turn or something). Not arbitrary enough. I fully expect the final version of Primal Terrors to only allow beasts that start with S because they needed the other letters of the alphabet for design space.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 5, 2018 15:48:48 GMT
Sentries I think are not good enough at their role (guarding) for their point cost. The biggest problem I have with them is how difficult it is to get their animus to be worth it. At MAT 6... It just isn't worth the fury usually, especially when they are so low to begin with. I think they need to be "better" at Shield-guarding somehow, but I can't come up with an elegant option that isn't over-powered. Maybe Girded? Or Lash? Maybe native Retaliatory Strike? I don't know. Failing that I think they they need to be fury 4 so you don't give up quite so much hitting power... If the Gladiator is the standard by which we measure Titans, than the Sentry trades too much offense and utility to get it's boosted defense. Another thing I could see is just reducing their point cost a bit. 14 feels right. On this I strongly disagree. I love Sentries, and find they shine often. An effective 23 ARM with all warlocks is amazing, and requires a large amount of resources to remove. I especially like them with Zaadesh2 in Exalted. The amount of interrupting attacks is insane, and hats ground down many an opponent's clock to date. They are awesome with Zaadesh2, to be sure. But I would like them be awesome with everyone. To me, the utility of Rush, the extra ps on the third initial, and more importantly the extra fury is not worth it to gain a shield and reach on one of my attacks.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 5, 2018 14:39:25 GMT
I think the Titans are actually in a pretty good spot right now. I've played the Titan Herd and it works pretty well. It's a little out-classed by Don-spam, but the Bronzeback adds so much more to fury control and the Titans hit so much harder than Don's that I feel like they have a place.
My only problem with the Titan Herd is that I don't really feel compelled to play at least one of each. Ideally I should see great synergy with all on the table at once, so you would kind of always want the full stable in your list.
I think for what they bring to the table, Gladiators are amazing. I wouldn't change anything there.
Cannoneers should be 15 points. That's really about the only change they need. With 1 less fury and initial and less utility, I don't understand how they cost MORE than a Gladiator.
Sentries I think are not good enough at their role (guarding) for their point cost. The biggest problem I have with them is how difficult it is to get their animus to be worth it. At MAT 6... It just isn't worth the fury usually, especially when they are so low to begin with. I think they need to be "better" at Shield-guarding somehow, but I can't come up with an elegant option that isn't over-powered. Maybe Girded? Or Lash? Maybe native Retaliatory Strike? I don't know. Failing that I think they they need to be fury 4 so you don't give up quite so much hitting power... If the Gladiator is the standard by which we measure Titans, than the Sentry trades too much offense and utility to get it's boosted defense. Another thing I could see is just reducing their point cost a bit. 14 feels right.
The Bronzeback is awesome. He hits SO well for his point cost it's insane. My only problem is that his best ability (leadership) costs so much to get on the table that after you have paid for him to lose a lot of points that you want for the rest of the list to really make it worthwhile. So I think boosting his "herd leading" a bit so that he can really pushes offensive output of the entire herd would be great. I'd like an ability called "Leader of the Pack" that lets Titans within his CMD to charge without being forced against targets he has charged this turn. If that would be too strong coupled with Leadership then make it a "choose one per round" effect.
Honorable mention for Tiberion: I see the price point difference between him and the other Titans and it feels daunting. Like 7 points between him and the Gladiator feels like a LOT. 21 points, maybe 20, feels correct.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 3, 2018 19:37:40 GMT
After that math I figured I should at least assemble the Cetrati. Wow. These are my favorite PP sculpts ever. They are going to see playtime because they look great! The math also says they need Vorkesh, which means I need to find a way to get Vorkesh for free. That puts my first list squarely in the Masters of War camp. You can only play Cetrati in MoW anyway. Fortunately it also allows Karax (if you find the Cetrati don't perform for you)
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