gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on May 10, 2018 14:45:22 GMT
So, most of us are in agreement that Legion's biggest problems are its themes. Ravens of War, Children of the Dragon, and to a lesser degree Oracles are highly restrictive.
So I was looking at other themes out there, and it's clear the basic design is something like "we want you to play lots of these 'very limited things', so we will incentivize you with free points to do so instead of just playing theme-less"
There's lots of long term design and sales reasons to do this with themes and I'm generally in favor of that. It's just that Legion themes kinda suck so it doesn't work out well for us.
But if you look around out there, there ARE themes that give you bonus points for taking both units AND warnouns in your lists (The Irregulars may be the only one, but it exists). But if the design goal of themes is to heavily restrict what you have on your lists, and our themes are already heavily restricted, why further restrict in them what gives you free points? So what I'm proposing is this:
Update both Ravens of War and Children of the Dragon to give free choices for every 25 points of beasts and units that you take. There's already precedent out there for this, and I think all it would do is open up more casters to these lists. Suddenly Abby2 could play Ravens of War without being an idiot. Stuff like that.
At worst it would mean that Legion ends up with 4 free choices, a precedent already set by other lists, and a total free points value that still would be less than the free points available to other themes already. There would be no new combinations of models, just slightly more of them on the table.
I'm not sure Oracles would need such a treatment to function, but it would allow us to field a "lots of magic casters" themed list without having to spam tons of beasts to get there. And I certainly don't think those lists would really get any better.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on May 10, 2018 13:50:07 GMT
I want to hear about the CMA waterfall!
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on May 2, 2018 17:30:17 GMT
My experiments in The Exalted continued last night and the aftermath gave rise to an interesting discussion with my Cryx opponent. So, how valued would my fellow Tyrants rate Force Aura for Immortals? There are, for lack of a better term, break-points in stats that see a.... er.... statistically meaningful variance in table performance. So when we evaluate our defensive options, what do we look for in DEF and ARM vs ranged/melee? Should I consider it 'good' to use a Krea + Advocate to create 13/19 Immortals with Concealment? Or does it need "just one more" layer to tip the scale? e.g. at one extreme, Xerxis1 can give us 15/21 Immortals with Concealment. I found Kreas to an excellent pair with Immortals. Also, an often under valued option is the Krea Paralysis gaze. It's a lovely way to increase accuracy on Exalted who often need it. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on May 2, 2018 17:27:57 GMT
unless i need the BFS my beast lists are all in PT. the +2" deployment just seems more valuable to me than apparition and upkeeps. Yes loosing free forsaken is sad. but Hellmouths (even when paid for) are worth it. I think this really says something about Legion themes. You are probably right, so that means the best beast theme list is an infantry theme. Sigh... |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on May 1, 2018 3:19:10 GMT
I genuinely don't think Golab is best played with Anamag in Primal Terrors. Since he's available to everyone in PT, I'd play him with someone who can give him a damage boost and/or who really enjoys access to Lightning Strike. pThags comes to mind, but also Bethayne and Fyanna.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 27, 2018 18:23:42 GMT
I'm considering the merits of a "paingiver-lite" Xerxes2 Titan herd build. I don't think it will make it there but the interaction seemed interesting enough and I've got the models lying around...
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 27, 2018 17:56:26 GMT
If I have two Bronzebacks, can I remove 2 fury from every Titan within their CMD? Could the two Bronzebacks affect each other?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 27, 2018 17:36:55 GMT
Anamag's + Blightbringer + Blighted Ogrun (any) + Hellmouths are good. This theme will get even better when they release the Chosen of Everblight (ogrum cavalry that they previewed a while back). With those as your core, you will have a hard time making a truly bad list.
The big sticking point for most people is the reluctance to buy Blightbringer. It's clear to me that this theme was balanced only with it in mind, so I think playing without it is a non-starter. Beyond that, like most themes it kind of writes itself. Max out on free points, fill in the rest with whatever you like after that.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 25, 2018 20:42:26 GMT
If you are looking for three points, you could probably drop the forsaken. The Archangel greatly lessens your fury load so you may be able to get by with just one forsaken and a Shepherd.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 25, 2018 20:12:47 GMT
I actually think that Vayl2 could make great use out of the Archangel. It's naturally high hitting power and gun and MASSIVE arcing base I think suit her well, plus the extra 2" to its threat can really add a lot. Given the list you posted,I would probably replace the Carny and Scythean for it (course I despise both of those beasts so... I may be biased)
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 23, 2018 22:08:17 GMT
There's no need to simulate rolls, or do any complicated math. The probability of a result is the number of ways to get that result divided by the number of total possibilities. With three dice, you only have 216 possibilities so just check them all. Takes less time and effort than simulating thousands of rolls and gives precise results. I think you over estimate how long it took me to write and run this (about 20 minutes). |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 23, 2018 13:30:57 GMT
Add a die drop the lowest is mathematically basically the same as +2 to the roll. That makes your probability of hitting Def14 with Focus 6 a cool 72%. With rerolling, you take the probability of failure and multiply it by the probability of failure. The probability of rolling 7 or less on 2D6 is 58.333%. 58.3333%X58.333% is 34% chance of failure. Which makes the probability of success 66%. So Arcane Secrets is straight up better in terms of modding your dice. Of course Puppet Master works on far more possible rolls, so its a question of flexibility vs a more focused benefit. I've heard the whole "Signs and Portents is basically +2" schtick before and it's not that accurate. I don't care to do the math on it, so I brute forced it and wrote a program to simulate the die rolls several million times and averaged the results. This what was rolled: Threshold: 2 2d6 Success %:100.0 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:100.0 3d6 drop lowest Success %:100.0 Threshold: 3 2d6 Success %:97.2107 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:99.9248 3d6 drop lowest Success %:99.53450000000001 Threshold: 4 2d6 Success %:91.6857 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:99.3105 3d6 drop lowest Success %:98.142 Threshold: 5 2d6 Success %:83.3189 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:97.2148 3d6 drop lowest Success %:94.9227 Threshold: 6 2d6 Success %:72.2461 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:92.2964 3d6 drop lowest Success %:89.3263 Threshold: 7 2d6 Success %:58.4106 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:82.6323 3d6 drop lowest Success %:80.5392 Threshold: 8 2d6 Success %:41.5785 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:65.89620000000001 3d6 drop lowest Success %:67.9569 Threshold: 9 2d6 Success %:27.7721 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:47.8379 3d6 drop lowest Success %:52.2783 Threshold: 10 2d6 Success %:16.6647 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:30.5991 3d6 drop lowest Success %:35.6571 Threshold: 11 2d6 Success %:8.321000000000002 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:15.9967 3d6 drop lowest Success %:19.9085 Threshold: 12 2d6 Success %:2.7732 2d6 with a re-roll Success %:5.459499999999999 3d6 drop lowest Success %:7.439500000000001 Average 2d6 roll: 7.000962727272727 Average 3d6 drop lowest roll: 8.458471636363637 The "+2" analogy is only right when you need to roll an average number. It's not that useful when you are trying to figure out how much damage you will do vs whether you will hit, since rolling "to hit" is a pass/fail scenario vs a "every point counts" scenario. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 21, 2018 14:41:13 GMT
Get them through attacks, same as now. If it charges too far ahead you won't be able to fuel it up again with your paingivers.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 20, 2018 17:11:28 GMT
I'd heard a great idea which was it starts the game with 3 rage tokens, and gets +1 spd per token, but has base spd reduced to 5. Basically it would make it so that after it's initial charge it doesn't still threaten the entire table, and it creates a sort of interesting dichotomy between threat range and offensive potential. I think it also puts a bit more value on the Cyclops Savage, because then Future Sight gets more value.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 20, 2018 16:46:17 GMT
Excessive Healing basically is a gear check. It's not the first, it won't be the last, and of all the design decisions PP has made, this is FAR from the most egregious.
Strangely enough, the new expensive unit for Legion is the most tilting! Almost as if they want us to buy them...
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