gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 28, 2018 17:26:07 GMT
I could also see an artillery version of the Soulward. It would function kind of like the Gator-pot, and just be a much stronger, longer range version of the existing Soulward's Spirit Eye.
Boostable artillery shots that have Ghost Shot, but basically require your own dudes to die before it becomes very effective.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 28, 2018 17:21:09 GMT
With how skorne views ranged weapons I would think the only ranged unit we could see would be something magical. I'm ok with the list being a straight infantry melee skew and just hope for a medium based unit of some sort. Personally though I'm hoping to see some of our beasts get looked at in CID. I could see ranged weapons that were thrown, like javelins or harpoons. They feel short range and "requiring strength" enough to fit Skorne's martial ideals. Another interesting idea might be a more martial version of the Extoller Soulward. Like, their job is to collect souls of the worthy, and they can use this to shoot things for some reason. What if, instead of shooting things, it made them better melee combatants? Like instead of shooting mystical ghost shots, that if they wielded mystical ghost swords? I assume the soul-poop the Extoller is holding is how he can shoot things, maybe this guy's soul-poop is fashioned into a sword. A melee solo, or unit, that has Strength of Death. As much as I hate the "living only" restrictions, that seems like it could be pretty interesting and would explain their inclusion in this army as part of the "dead watcher caste" or whatever. |
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 27, 2018 20:00:28 GMT
Yeah so... I'm kind of wondering what new stuff they will add.
I'm kind of expecting more options for units. There's really only the one work horse unit. So maybe heavy infantry? Probably not cavalry. Actually I'm kinda wondering if they will do a large based heavy infantry unit? Like a Cav unit that simply is speed 4 or 5.
I'm also wondering if they will do a new heavy kit that is basically a construct war beast. Like maybe over the years they have a had a few specially favored beasts that they immortalized the same way they do soldiers. So giant statue'd Titans, cyclops, Rhinodons, etc.
The Exalted list right now is actually pretty limited in terms of models... But many of the missing avenues (cavalry, heavy infantry, etc) just don't seem all that likely.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 24, 2018 12:51:46 GMT
The CiD play tested it in Exalted and Masters of War, so expect to see it on both. The ability to bring back a Cataphract was definitely a selling point.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 24, 2018 12:48:43 GMT
Can I just say I'm not sure that churning out uninspired and uninteresting models to fill out themes is actually a great idea? Most of the models coming out with the themes just seem to be extremely boring. We're seeing stuff like "a Man-o-War... but BIG!" and "an Immortal but BIG!" and "Bushwhackers with winter hats!" and "Long Gunners with Trencher uniforms!" I don't mind the 'X with a different hat' mentality as long as it brings something new. The Tankers have very different attacks to any normal flavour of MoW, and the Supreme Guardian seems like a good extension of the theme. Trencher Long Gunners, however, I'm 100% with you. I think there is something to that "more of the same but with different hat" that had an appeal. Coming from a Warhammer Fantasy background, I always preferred armies that looked more uniform. Instead of a hodge podge of whatever models worked best, painted entirely different per model/unit, I preferred themed armies where everything felt like it "belonged" aesthetically or thematically. And just giving that long Gunner a different hat made him really look like he belonged in a trencher army. Did it take much or any imagination to design? Nope, but it definitely looks better on the table than the alternative. |
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 15, 2018 20:51:36 GMT
Another thought I had over in the Legion forums to help build list diversity was to ease the restrictions on what gives you free points. For example, Oracles of Annihilation is their beast theme/sorcerers theme. Only it gives points for beasts alone, so it is largely limited to our beast casters. If it was altered to just say "free slots for every 30 points of units/beasts", suddenly you would see people using it with infantry casters and combined arms casters. It still has the same limited model selection to ease the balancing-burden. Do you think changes like the above would help the list-diversity problem that themes have created? Would changes like these cause newer/bigger balance problems? I agree with this, if the theme is already being restricted by what they can and cannot take, it generally shouldn't be necessary to double down and limit what actually benefits from the theme. I don't think it would work for all themes, but some definitely. Like Disciples of Agony gets to pick all the best animus of both Skorne and Minions at the same time, but it does so at the expense of free points. Others like Children of the Dragon would be a shoe-in. |
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 15, 2018 16:16:05 GMT
Another thought I had over in the Legion forums to help build list diversity was to ease the restrictions on what gives you free points. For example, Oracles of Annihilation is their beast theme/sorcerers theme. Only it gives points for beasts alone, so it is largely limited to our beast casters. If it was altered to just say "free slots for every 30 points of units/beasts", suddenly you would see people using it with infantry casters and combined arms casters. It still has the same limited model selection to ease the balancing-burden.
Do you think changes like the above would help the list-diversity problem that themes have created? Would changes like these cause newer/bigger balance problems?
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 15, 2018 15:00:56 GMT
So it feels there are two general grievances with themes:
1. Imbalance. Some are great, others are a waste of time.
2. Stifling list diversity. List building becomes "on rails" or you just play down 10-20 points
We are talking about "quick-fixes" here, something we might reasonably expect vs simply accepting that "this is how things are now"
I don't think there is much of an easy answer to issue 1 beyond what they are already doing: slowly updating models and themes through CiD.
Issue 2 I think we can merely look to some existing themes out there. Namely, Irregulars. It has extremely little limitations, overcomes the free points issue, and has a few special rules to boot. It doesn't invalidate the other Mercenaries themes either. So...
What if they made an Irregulars/Generic theme for the other factions? Of course, if they did this, it re-introduces some of the problems themes were aimed at fixing, such as the difficulty of balancing an entire faction's worth of options. Right now they worry less about such a thing for most factions because playing out of theme means you are playing with a 12-20 point handicap: often enough to overcome any imbalances the ability to play with all those models at once can cause. Is there a way to make an Irregulars style theme for most factions without breaking things?
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 11, 2018 20:07:02 GMT
He seems like a lot of work to deliver a pillow-fisted, overpriced model. I feel like this description would apply to most of Legion war beasts. |
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 10, 2018 22:08:43 GMT
If I don't have to face Grymkin then I think forsaken is hands down the better option. Though I like the range 8" buff spells it's by no means vital to the list. So what do you see your winning strategy for this? Clearing zones, assassination, clock, etc... The reason I ask is it kind of looks like your goal would be assassination and attrition, which means your ability to remove Gremlin Swarms isn't as big as issue. And of course, your paired list with this may be your Grymkin drop, etc. Just things to think about. I see Azrael in a list and I assume you would want to blow his full fury load on two fully boosted shots... But if you do this you will almost certainly need to take a frenzy check, and if he frenzies at range he is more likely to go after your stuff than his... It just seems like you are setting your self up for some tough situations, all to deal with one theme in one faction. |
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 10, 2018 15:10:35 GMT
aaaaand that didn't last long. I already want to backburner PT lists and do my own thing... Which as usual is out-of-theme puzzles. I really want to play Kallus 2. I was kind of down on the haphazard design, and technically still am. He has a weird trap where building to take advantage of one power spell, you lose out deftly on the other. Buuuuut I still want to do it. So below is the list I'm putting together to try and take advantage of both spells as best as possible. Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Kallus 2] Kallus, Devastation of Everblight [+28] - Azrael [21] - Carnivean [18] - Proteus [19] - Ammok the Truthbearer [4] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Spell Martyr [1] Spell Martyr [1] Strider Deathstalker [4] Strider Deathstalker [4] Chosen of Everblight (max) [20] Strider Blightblades [10] So obviously I should explain. (Not like that's the whole point of me posting this or anything) Chosen - Two attacks at good pow for Legion infantry. Healthly enough to survive the approach with Kallus' lack of defense tech. High speed taken even higher with feat. Blight blades - Ambush or AD gives them much better threat. With the possibility to charge in 16.5" from board edge under feat. Battle Lust: Both units are small in model count but make up for it with 2 attacks each. Granted half the attacks won't be boosted damage like a full 10 man unit charging in. but the smaller model count should let me get more attacks into single targets. I mean no matter how you want to try you will never get all 10 grotesques onto a single heavy. So I think (keyword) it will pan out the way I want. Deathstalkers - Immediate regret in that Anamag game was board/range threat and clearing bodies. Now Deathstalkers weren't going to solve the gremlin swarm issue, but for anything but grymkin I will need a way to clear some light infantry and solos. Deathstalkers also give some flag scoring potential while still contributing within 12/14/16 inches of said flag. Spell martyrs - battle lust on ambushing blightblades. Casting that one woeful attempt at Brand of Fire and then only rolling a 1 for additional targets. Then watches those two targets go out the next turn. Azrael - fire application and Overrun proc. If I absolutely have to kill an infantry model to trigger overrun I will. Carnivean - Kallus needs to be armor 20 and it's another sources of continuous fire. Though I really hope I don't have to assault a carni just to set something on fire. Protues - this is the Key piece that should (keyword) be totally disgusting. 12" threat base. I can either Feat for 15", Overrun for 17" of both for 20". If I can charge any light infantry model of solo at the 4" reach mark I can have Overrun on Proteus himself and get him the next 5" walk for not much commitment. Then after I get somewhere else (initials wasted or not) I can buy another drag, which also sets the target on fire enabling more feat charges. All around Proteus should completely warp the game state whenever he goes in. I want it to be glorious. Ammok is the only thing that is really just not a staple. He's there to help with the 2" casting range when not through a martyr. As well as the anti-incorp since I don't have wraithbane or a cheap nuke. Ammok for Forsaken. Your beast load is too high for what you've got. While it doesn't provide quite the solution for incorporeal that Ammok does, Blight-bombs ARE magical damage so it's something. Also with Kallus speed he pretty clear get to where he needs on his own to spread around some magical damage. I suppose it depends on your meta though. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 10, 2018 14:21:00 GMT
Yeah themes are simply to combat model bloat and stop the game collapsing under it's own weight, however it's too bad PP can't make themes where all the models are appealing options, a moment of silence for Stormguard please Were Stormguard EVER good? Because a moment of silence implies they died, and I would argue they never really lived... |
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gordo
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My star is green?
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Post by gordo on Aug 9, 2018 14:49:01 GMT
Regarding "high armor" Ogrun and not being "Legion", I genuinely don't think the devs have any vision what so ever regarding the faction, but... Your point is valid.
Warmongers get blood drinking, so I suppose they could double down on that and make a unit that gets corpse tokens. Kind of like the Gator-pot, in that they give them to other people. I could see them all decked out in the bones and body parts of their enemies.
And again, I would love to see Nephilim Ogrun. Bigger Nephilim birthed from Ogrun women. They could be the "budget heavy" we've been longing for... Fury 3, using weapons, eyeless sight but no Pathfinder or flight. Dunno...
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 9, 2018 12:45:01 GMT
shield wall unit. Sick of seeing Arm 23 shock troopers and cinerators walking around as "balanced". I can't even throw heavy warbeasts at the dam things and kill one or two. If they can have that without a 32 point armor buff and them being as cheap as warmongers. I want a set too. While I agree that Shield Wall is awesome and annoying, I doubt the designers consider it "Legion". Too slow, too static. Course, they make our Ogrun Spd 5 and Cryx Ogrun Spd 6, and cheaper, with guns, but sure... |
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 8, 2018 21:32:53 GMT
I'm seriously jealous of the Cryx Black Ogrun, who basically seem like better in every way (Cryx favoritism??? Never!), So to that end...
Ogrun Blightbelchers
Ogrun Beastmongers
Blighted Ogrun Raiding Party
Blighted Ogrun Marauders
Blightgorgers
Blightcage
And so on...
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