mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on May 10, 2017 22:50:35 GMT
Yeah, this actually works pretty well with the way the model looks. I'd still have a standoffish gun platform, but if it has to like melee, this'll fit.
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Post by Ajax on May 10, 2017 22:51:53 GMT
Holy crap, nobody else here thinks that the War Wagon is insanely strong now? Negates tough, since auto KD, pseudo-trample, and infinite amounts of impact attacks? Goodbye infantry... not that I'm complaining. At this point, I'd definitely consider taking the war wagon. It's one hell of a piece.
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Post by custardboy on May 10, 2017 23:22:43 GMT
The war wagon and gun-carriage are basically the same model. They also do what the meat thresher is thematically supposed to do way better than the meat thresher. I would have rathered something different to 'seriously don't even deploy infantry.'
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on May 11, 2017 0:44:17 GMT
First impression of WW CID v3: 1. Without slamming impacts, the WW's charge target may be unfortunately safe when preceded by 1-2 Tough-Steady 30mm models. 2. Mount at 1" melee is even more important without Bulldoze (ref: Tough-Steady) 3. Charge target is the one and only model that can be slammed. Make it one you are sure to engage. 4. Concept of 'infinite impacts' is hyperbole, but destroying a full 1-wounder unit may be possible. Love that Satyxis/Kayazy types must now consider this model's melee potential. 5. Does Arcing Fire allow targeting a charge at a 30-40mm base when direct LOS cannot be acquired without crossing over 40mm bases? Ha! 6. Any ability/Feat that prevents Charges neuter this model's melee use.
Send it in, to plow the road for the MtK.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 11, 2017 3:21:36 GMT
First impression of WW CID v3: 1. Without slamming impacts, the WW's charge target may be unfortunately safe when preceded by 1-2 Tough-Steady 30mm models. 2. Mount at 1" melee is even more important without Bulldoze (ref: Tough-Steady) 2. Auto KD on impact attacks at 3d6 (Linebreaker) is impressive. 3. Charge target is the one and only model that can be slammed. Make it one you are sure to engage. 4. Concept of 'infinite impacts' is hyperbole, but destroying a full 1-wounder unit may be possible. Love that Satyxis/Kayazy types must now consider this model's melee potential. 5. Does Arcing Fire allow targeting a charge at a 30-40mm base when direct LOS cannot be acquired without crossing over 40mm bases? Ha! 6. Any ability/Feat that prevents Charges neuter this model's melee use. Send it in, to plow the road for the MtK. 1. Most infantry still won't be a problem to take out considering its still 3 dice to hit mat 6 and pow 14 2. Agreed 3. Agreed 4. Agreed 5. No, Arcing Fire specifies you can only ignore intervening models for the purpose of firing the weapon. Charging != shooting your big gun. 6. Thankfully, it still has one of the best guns in the game
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Post by anoddman on May 11, 2017 3:34:34 GMT
War Wagon has always caused KD (via KD, Momentum, or High Impact) from its impact attacks. That hasn't changed since its release.
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Post by tiberius on May 11, 2017 10:30:54 GMT
I cant see the not having to move to do impact attacks, no limit to impact attacks and line breaker all staying. That is really powerful, not that I am complaining, I just cant see it making it through testing.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on May 11, 2017 16:48:04 GMT
Well, color me interested. Definitely would like to test this out. With the new utility against infantry, the Wagon finally feels like a solid alternative option to a Warbeast. Not sure how balanced unlimited impacts will be, but I could see it working.
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Post by robobengt on May 12, 2017 11:37:39 GMT
I cant see the not having to move to do impact attacks, no limit to impact attacks and line breaker all staying. That is really powerful, not that I am complaining, I just cant see it making it through testing. Why not? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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Post by tiberius on May 12, 2017 14:10:57 GMT
It seems reasonable to guarantee hitting and killing all single wound infantry in a huge base sized 10" stretch of ground and most multiwound infantry? and then doing melee attacks and gun shots when you get to the last position? I know we are dying for something really over the top in trolls, but that is really over the top.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on May 12, 2017 14:21:27 GMT
Wouldn't a single missed trample attack or low damage roll or stop that though? Then if that happens it loses its ranged attacks? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
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Post by Trollock on May 12, 2017 14:49:47 GMT
If you miss or fail to kill a single infantry model on the way, you will stop and fail your charge yes. Boosted MAT 6 with POW 14 is pretty reliable though, especially since tough wont work unless you are also immune to knock down. If you fail your charge for any reason, you will stop and you can not shoot and your activation ends.
This is very strong not only because of how much work it could do, but also due to how your opponent has to play. Sure he can HOPE that you miss one guy on the way, but most likely he will have to not spread out infantry in a cloud because you will just kill em all. You may not actually be able to do it, but he has to play like you can. Its like assassination. You dont want to leave your opponent with a 30% assassination on turn 2. He will probably not go for it, but you still play like he will go for it.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 12, 2017 14:52:00 GMT
This is very strong not only because of how much work it could do Its fine. Plowing through 10 inches of Infantry is really the optimal scenario. More like 3 inches or so with the way people lay out their stuff. Its good, great even, but not Overpowered.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on May 12, 2017 15:32:22 GMT
If you miss or fail to kill a single infantry model on the way, you will stop and fail your charge yes. Boosted MAT 6 with POW 14 is pretty reliable though, especially since tough wont work unless you are also immune to knock down. If you fail your charge for any reason, you will stop and you can not shoot and your activation ends. This is very strong not only because of how much work it could do, but also due to how your opponent has to play. Sure he can HOPE that you miss one guy on the way, but most likely he will have to not spread out infantry in a cloud because you will just kill em all. You may not actually be able to do it, but he has to play like you can. Its like assassination. You dont want to leave your opponent with a 30% assassination on turn 2. He will probably not go for it, but you still play like he will go for it. Units with def 13 are quite common. You can't plan on getting through three of those before landing your charge without it feeling risky IMO. I don't feel as though it is overpowered at all. Sure it CAN do major work to a unit PLUS spray and shoot the canon, but I don't feel the numbers make this incredibly possible. I'm only saying this because people seem to believe it is too powerful and may not stay this way. I disagree. It would be risky to attempt a large trample charge and lose the ranged attacks. A large attempt to kill 4-5 infantry on the trample is more likely to result in a failed charge IMO. I still feel I may be misunderstanding however. Is it possible to trample, land short of your planned landing point and still fire? If not, not OP at all.
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Post by tiberius on May 12, 2017 17:22:58 GMT
I see what you are all saying, and I do roll my fair share of triple 1's, but I can hear my normal opponents crying about this already...and my other army is cryx. In a competitive setting where everything is streamlined, you are all probably right. No more than 3-4 guys dying in one set of impacts is probably all it will see.
But I am looking forward to trying to live the dream! plow through an entire unit of idrians to get to the screened warjacks and knock them down. Then light them up with a bomber or something.
I could bring the dhunian knot for rerolls, or fortune from Doomy to get rid of any bad bits of luck.
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