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Tharn CID
Sept 2, 2018 1:47:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by davycannonhound on Sept 2, 2018 1:47:24 GMT
So, if I were to make myself into a caster, he would have the ability that Lanyssa has, but it would be for Circle instead of Legion.
That said, the Tharn CID is out.
Immediate observations, and suggested counters? I’m terrified of the new Tharn and other models getting buffed, if I’m being honest.
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Tharn CID
Sept 2, 2018 19:49:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by slaughtersun on Sept 2, 2018 19:49:02 GMT
So, if I were to make myself into a caster, he would have the ability that Lanyssa has, but it would be for Circle instead of Legion. That said, the Tharn CID is out. Immediate observations, and suggested counters? I’m terrified of the new Tharn and other models getting buffed, if I’m being honest. From what i can see in the cid forum Circle players are crying /complaining a lot. How they argue that a Stalker should be mat 7 is beyhond me... the same with arguinig for lower costs on warpwolves... they should play legion and then complain that about defense/arm ratios...
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 3, 2018 14:57:39 GMT
If you want to see inside the crazy farm. Go read the 92 pages of their outlandish wishlisting in the Circle boards here. 10 point ferals, rage in faction, berserk overtake stalkers, etc...
As for Counters I still think Legion will prey on circle just as easily as before. They've gotten a bit cheaper and a lot more kill~y. Legion never withstands an attack so the second advantage they are getting doesn't change anything.
Ravagers still won't survive our shooting. We still ignore concealment and stealth. So the only issue is the new upkeep from Iona. So, get up the field faster, ie Raptors and Anyssa.
That being said, staying on the meta train will probably set you up for failure. PT is not going to drop into Dev Host very well. Yes, PT can get a high MAT so it will hit the tharn guys and girls. But their numbers are more plentiful than our attacks. Ravagers Want to see heavy, high value targets like warspears, BB, and chosen. And no I don't think chosen will survive more than 1 charging Pow 18 (feated) Ravager, as likely he will have tokens to buy more swings.
The other problem DH causes is that it also Wants to see infantry spam. Heart tokens just give them the ability to mow their way through whatever they want to.
So yeah, TLDR. Raptors. Shooty beats. Not slow trundling Ogrun. But I don't know everything and I'm only playing against my Wife's Circle for CID so I can't drop lists I know would counter it.
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Tharn CID
Sept 3, 2018 15:49:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by slaughtersun on Sept 3, 2018 15:49:05 GMT
Agreed with the above...
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 6, 2018 17:32:04 GMT
I don't know or particularly care about the other changes, little Circle presence where I am, but how does everyone feel about the Raptor changes compared to our own Archangel?
Personally, I'm kinda annoyed it got buffed and cheaper, especially when it took our own garg's signature ability.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2018 17:48:20 GMT
Very grumpy. It would be far and away the best thing to happen to the AA. Soles has specifically said that the raptor is to imitate the AA. Now, aside from reload, it's blatantly better. Better range, more powerful animus, a "don't hit me single wound models" mechanic in Plasma Nimbus, disruption, and now not only is Flying high a ranged defense it adds a tactician like ability that helps with positioning.
I don't understand where the "it does no damage in melee" BS comes from as it has 1 less pow than the AA and it's the hardest hitting thing we have. And Circle has access to Primal...
A majority of Circle players have proven to be some of the greediest, whiniest, voices I've ever seen. The most common jab that gets thrown at me is "Just because Legion got screwed doesn't mean Circle should".
Yes the Storm raptor needed "some" help. Now it outclasses the design it was supposed to imitate.
I can only hope that Flying high gets added to the AA in the Dynamic Update.
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 6, 2018 18:38:11 GMT
Archangel Pros & Cons Compared to Storm Raven: This is of course ignoring things the rest of the faction provides. Pros -AoE:3 -Continuous Effect vs Critical Effect -RoF:d3+1 -+1PS Bite
Cons -3pts cheaper -Flying High -+2RNG -+2 to hit on Skyfire -Electro Leap on melee -Immunity
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Sept 6, 2018 19:00:15 GMT
Let's not forget that Circle has a very strong caster in Krueger who brings an additional -5 RNG to guns in his toolkit, meaning range 10 guns need only buzz right off and not exist. Meanwhile our only ways to deliver our important pieces are uh... some casters with Concealment or Stealth spells (which scale poorly on paper thin ARM units if any AOEs exist) and...Lylyth3, who can't even protect an Archangel if she wanted to bring it. Obviously terrain can be a thing too but that's something that you can't always rely on people setting up correctly.
I can't speak intelligently on if Krueger would WANT to bring a Storm Raptor...but it sure feels crummy to continue to be the absolute worst faction into guns, when some of the stronger warmachine factions have very scary guns to have to worry about. Or maybe it's just a local/personal problem.
To be fair, they shouldn't. Everyone should get cool stuff. But it's a two way street where I wonder where Legion's nice stuff is, and how I would respond. The more I play Primal Terrors, the more I see why other factions (with the exception of a few outspoken crybabies) weren't super scared once it was out and available. When it wins, it really really wins, but there was already lots of people teching for that style of list so it also loses really really hard too.
I haven't followed their CiD too heavily as non-gaming responsibilities have had my attention recently, but how's their new model count and legacy representation? I'm talking from the perspective of how badly PT CiD compared to basically every other faction's tweaks and releases in terms of volume.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2018 19:03:17 GMT
Archangel Pros & Cons Compared to Storm Raven: This is of course ignoring things the rest of the faction provides. Pros -AoE:3 -Continuous Effect vs Critical Effect -RoF:d3+1 -+1PS Bite Cons -3pts cheaper -Flying High -+2RNG -+2 to hit on Skyfire -Electro Leap on melee -Immunity Add Lightning Generator to the gun Add Plasma Nimbus Add Disruption on Melee SR +1 Def | AA +1 Arm
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2018 20:01:35 GMT
I haven't followed their CiD too heavily as non-gaming responsibilities have had my attention recently, but how's their new model count and legacy representation? I'm talking from the perspective of how badly PT CiD compared to basically every other faction's tweaks and releases in terms of volume. Very Few new models: Iona, B&C, Blood shaman, Well (xmas model) Lots of Legacy models: All warp wolves, All goats, Brennos, Ghetorix, All tharn units and Solos.
So far everything has jumped up from a 5 or less to a 9 or 10. But that's in the eyes of an outsiders with little bias. To Circle veteran trolls it's not even remotely enough to get models off the shelf or to stop them from playing 100% Bones theme.
My wife, who took over my Circle collection, is entirely amazed and most often taken back by just how much better the models are. She believes quite a bit of the changes are "broken" in terms of being too good.
My opinion comparing Circle to Legion CID; Circle is getting way better quality of life after this. (If it sticks)
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 6, 2018 20:25:01 GMT
Archangel Pros & Cons Compared to Storm Raven: This is of course ignoring things the rest of the faction provides. Pros -AoE:3 -Continuous Effect vs Critical Effect -RoF:d3+1 -+1PS Bite Cons -3pts cheaper -Flying High -+2RNG -+2 to hit on Skyfire -Electro Leap on melee -Immunity Add Lightning Generator to the gun Add Plasma Nimbus Add Disruption on Melee SR +1 Def | AA +1 Arm -I probably could've left off AoE if I had remember Generator, though it does have a greater reach. -Totally forgot about Nimbus and disruption. -Personally I think DEF/ARM is a wash. Overall, damn that really makes me depressed about the Archangel. At least Blighty is still awesome.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Sept 6, 2018 20:40:57 GMT
Very grumpy. It would be far and away the best thing to happen to the AA. Soles has specifically said that the raptor is to imitate the AA. Now, aside from reload, it's blatantly better. Better range, more powerful animus, a "don't hit me single wound models" mechanic in Plasma Nimbus, disruption, and now not only is Flying high a ranged defense it adds a tactician like ability that helps with positioning. I don't understand where the "it does no damage in melee" BS comes from as it has 1 less pow than the AA and it's the hardest hitting thing we have. And Circle has access to Primal... A majority of Circle players have proven to be some of the greediest, whiniest, voices I've ever seen. The most common jab that gets thrown at me is "Just because Legion got screwed doesn't mean Circle should". Yes the Storm raptor needed "some" help. Now it outclasses the design it was supposed to imitate. I can only hope that Flying high gets added to the AA in the Dynamic Update. No one will listen to complaints from Legion players as long as Primal Terrors is tearing up the scene, no matter how little it has to do with Archangel, Nephilim, Nyss, etc. I've moved on. Someday I will get bored, spend the 200+$ on Chosen and relish its power. Until then...
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Sept 6, 2018 20:50:55 GMT
So back during and immediately after our CiD, many of us complained how little "effort" was put into it. Many of us felt the models were uninspired, addressed little of our faction wide issues, and that the developers simply weren't invested. I remember reading it and being concerned with how little the devs communicated.
Has anyone noticed that the devs seem far more invested in this CiD? Like I see them regularly responding to posts, multiple different devs posting, etc. Which is weird because there are fewer models being added than the Legion CiD (which itself felt small anyway). Am I imagining this? Is this just "Druids have greener grass"?
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 6, 2018 20:51:42 GMT
Very grumpy. It would be far and away the best thing to happen to the AA. Soles has specifically said that the raptor is to imitate the AA. Now, aside from reload, it's blatantly better. Better range, more powerful animus, a "don't hit me single wound models" mechanic in Plasma Nimbus, disruption, and now not only is Flying high a ranged defense it adds a tactician like ability that helps with positioning. I don't understand where the "it does no damage in melee" BS comes from as it has 1 less pow than the AA and it's the hardest hitting thing we have. And Circle has access to Primal... A majority of Circle players have proven to be some of the greediest, whiniest, voices I've ever seen. The most common jab that gets thrown at me is "Just because Legion got screwed doesn't mean Circle should". Yes the Storm raptor needed "some" help. Now it outclasses the design it was supposed to imitate. I can only hope that Flying high gets added to the AA in the Dynamic Update. No one will listen to complaints from Legion players as long as Primal Terrors is tearing up the scene, no matter how little it has to do with Archangel, Nephilim, Nyss, etc. I've moved on. Someday I will get bored, spend the 200+$ on Chosen and relish its power. Until then... My god, I forgot how expensive PP cavalry can be, and this is coming from a guy who buys anime figures. I'm gonna enjoy my Nyss and Nephilim for the forseeable future. And to add more fire to the flames, how does everyone else feel about their beast buffs/discounts and Morvhana changes? So back during and immediately after our CiD, many of us complained how little "effort" was put into it. Many of us felt the models were uninspired, addressed little of our faction wide issues, and that the developers simply weren't invested. I remember reading it and being concerned with how little the devs communicated. Has anyone noticed that the devs seem far more invested in this CiD? Like I see them regularly responding to posts, multiple different devs posting, etc. Which is weird because there are fewer models being added than the Legion CiD (which itself felt small anyway). Am I imagining this? Is this just "Druids have greener grass"? The one that sticks in my mind was the crow unit, so bland that I don't even remember their name, just that they had finisher. IIRC no changes were made and I don't even think the devs mentioned them at all. This was probably partially the fault of the complaints regarding Rapid Healing on Chosen. From memory the CID was focused around buffing the Blightbringer, balancing Chosen, and getting Warmonger usable. I will concede we also got the small Archangel patch and hefty Carnivean chassis discount around this time. BTW how are the male Tharn now that they've universally gained that rule?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Sept 6, 2018 21:18:53 GMT
No one will listen to complaints from Legion players as long as Primal Terrors is tearing up the scene, no matter how little it has to do with Archangel, Nephilim, Nyss, etc. I've moved on. Someday I will get bored, spend the 200+$ on Chosen and relish its power. Until then... My god, I forgot how expensive PP cavalry can be, and this is coming from a guy who buys anime figures. I'm gonna enjoy my Nyss and Nephilim for the forseeable future. And to add more fire to the flames, how does everyone else feel about their beast buffs/discounts and Morvhana changes? So back during and immediately after our CiD, many of us complained how little "effort" was put into it. Many of us felt the models were uninspired, addressed little of our faction wide issues, and that the developers simply weren't invested. I remember reading it and being concerned with how little the devs communicated. Has anyone noticed that the devs seem far more invested in this CiD? Like I see them regularly responding to posts, multiple different devs posting, etc. Which is weird because there are fewer models being added than the Legion CiD (which itself felt small anyway). Am I imagining this? Is this just "Druids have greener grass"? The one that sticks in my mind was the crow unit, so bland that I don't even remember their name, just that they had finisher. IIRC no changes were made and I don't even think the devs mentioned them at all. This was probably partially the fault of the complaints regarding Rapid Healing on Chosen. From memory the CID was focused around buffing the Blightbringer, balancing Chosen, and getting Warmonger usable. I will concede we also got the small Archangel patch and hefty Carnivean chassis discount around this time. BTW how are the male Tharn now that they've universally gained that rule? Most of the Battle reports rate them green. Course they also think the Well is balanced, arguing on the premise that it's free solo mechanic is balanced because recursion mechanics exist in other factions... As if that had any bearing. That and the Storm Raptor are getting all the attention right now. I actually dig most of the changes they are making, but the arguments some posters give are so wildly deluded/intentionally disingenuous... It concerns me, but we shall see. I'll be happy to see Circle in the meta more regardless. Circle's faction identity is very close to Legion's, so if they get buffed a bunch and it sticks, there's a better chance that Legion will see similar buffs when and if they ever address their other themes.
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