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Post by bloodhawk on Sept 6, 2018 19:47:44 GMT
I like Wurmwood with BloodPack myself. Similar to Mohsar but with more control elements!
It's cool we have so many options to discuss that all seem solid.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 6, 2018 20:15:20 GMT
I made a litst that i will most likely not have time to play lol. Also note that i have never played Baldur or Tharns XD conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j4mmDmKfrmUmF5q4_mj5wmj5wmTCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [0(5)] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [0(5)] Well of Orboros [10] The idea is that Bloodtrackers who are blast immune are good. +2 STR is great for them too. Ghetorix with +2 ARM is great and he can murder anything with potentially POW 23 (right?) The night witch could be a CA for the bloodwitches, but im skimping on solos. The wolfrider champ is a good model in general and helps me play a brick style army and still be relevant in scenario. Same goes for the Bloodwitches. They are mainly there for scenario, not for killing. Ravagers with a placable forest and permanent knock down immunity sounds very decent. Theoretically POW 17 charges can murder things too, but POW 15 is probably just fine. The well gives a bigger feat and i can bring in what ever solo i need most in the match up. It has no super good target to hand corpses to though. It costs me effectively 5 points though and its gun is well worth that. Possibly i could bring the 2 man unit rather than the second ravagers, as they seem to like corpses. Allows me to buy something extra too... Donno. I just know that Baldur 1 seems strong in this theme
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 7, 2018 0:58:00 GMT
Not exactly the same but I played this last night Trollock conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j4mmDmKmRmI54eEmF5q525w525wCircle Army - 72 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [0(5)] Death Wolves [9] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] Note I played 2 pts down for selecting the wrong ravagers in conflict chamber and I can confirm that it is indeed powerful. There are some tweaks I would do to it like dropping the wolves for B&C to use less corpses and provide an additional armor cracker and the shaman should've been a whitemane since I already have no knockdown from Baldur. I do like the shaman for magic weapons though. Feast was in there for testing purposes but he could also become a wolf rider solo. I played into Butcher 3 with Ruin, 2x juggies, Kodiak and behemoth on marshaled to bad santa. Mechanics, eliminators and a sniper to taste. I was in complete control the entire game and behemoth was made almost useless by tough rolls were i healed back to just 1 damage off rapid healing and stealth models immune to blast damage. The hightlights were the death wolves tanking out a flank by themselves, bloodtrackers killing a kodiak in a single activation and Ghtorix murdering a juggy and removing half of ruins health then tanking out a full activation from Ruin the next turn. Rapid healing is ace and its a very welcome addition to our murderous wolf. The feat buys you the alpha with a whole bunch of very hard hitting models in the right matchups. Feels good to have an MKII style list back in circle again.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 7, 2018 14:48:01 GMT
Anyone else been finding B and C to be really really good at killing heavies?
I played them with Baldur the he other day and Thete a Wrastler for breakfast.
I also am finding ravagers really lose steam once they get stuck in. Even with stone skin mine bounced off of possy after a charge and got shredded in return.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 7, 2018 14:55:48 GMT
I think LoS Charles had the twins nearly kill Conquest. Less than 6 boxes left I think it was. Me thinks they do too much damage...
[Edit] sorry, was a Victor. He called it a Conquest in the write up. (Or got the list wrong in the opening post. IDK)
"Caul gets Divine Inspiration and the twins charge the Conquest, rolling a little hot (something like 1.5 over average per hit) to leave the Conquest on 5 boxes. "
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Post by frumiousbandersnatch on Sept 7, 2018 15:21:48 GMT
Yeah, Brighid and Caul do have some insane damage output when Caul is loaded up on corpse tokens, though they are an all or nothing kind of strategy. If Brighid is killed then then Caul's damage output is absolutely tanked and once you commit them Brigihid is probably going to die. They are a heat seeking missile which might tear down a heavy, but they can also be pretty limited if you keep their prey away from them (they pretty much always want to be preying a single large target rather than say a unit imo).
I haven't gotten to play with them yet, but reading battle reports they either seem to punch high above their weight class or shut down and contribute almost nothing. Not sure if this is a good place for them to be or not and as cool as I think the unit is I kind of expect them to get nerfed in some way, but also hopefully made a little more survivable and consistent. Right now it seems like they are able to pretty reliably take down a heavy if it's their prey and Caul has corpses regardless of army support. Maybe they lose gang and prey, but gain flank or something. I dunno.
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Post by bloodhawk on Sept 7, 2018 15:50:38 GMT
The example against the Viktor was crazy, but it was also with both divine inspiration (which means you have killed one of your own models) and storm rager on caul, as well as prey on the Viktor. That's a lot of buffing. I think the optimal output for a unit with several buffs should be really good. The other thing I keep thinking about is that the unit has a very static threat range at 10.5 inches from Brighid, so if you stay 10.6 inches away from her you can't do nearly as much damage with caul.
That being said, I don't like the feast or famine nature of the unit. I guess you could argue that makes it more interesting, but I feel like it means one player has a bad time in the game. Curious how the unit performs this week and next now that people will respect their damage output. They have so many rules that the opponents probably didn't put all the pieces together in many cases to realize their true threat.
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 7, 2018 16:19:56 GMT
The example against the Viktor was crazy, but it was also with both divine inspiration (which means you have killed one of your own models) and storm rager on caul, as well as prey on the Viktor. That's a lot of buffing. I think the optimal output for a unit with several buffs should be really good. The other thing I keep thinking about is that the unit has a very static threat range at 10.5 inches from Brighid, so if you stay 10.6 inches away from her you can't do nearly as much damage with caul. That being said, I don't like the feast or famine nature of the unit. I guess you could argue that makes it more interesting, but I feel like it means one player has a bad time in the game. Curious how the unit performs this week and next now that people will respect their damage output. They have so many rules that the opponents probably didn't put all the pieces together in many cases to realize their true threat. Brigid has no problems running to enable a good charge turn from Caul. You sacrifice some damage but still get a ton of output that way if required.
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Post by bloodhawk on Sept 7, 2018 16:32:54 GMT
The example against the Viktor was crazy, but it was also with both divine inspiration (which means you have killed one of your own models) and storm rager on caul, as well as prey on the Viktor. That's a lot of buffing. I think the optimal output for a unit with several buffs should be really good. The other thing I keep thinking about is that the unit has a very static threat range at 10.5 inches from Brighid, so if you stay 10.6 inches away from her you can't do nearly as much damage with caul. That being said, I don't like the feast or famine nature of the unit. I guess you could argue that makes it more interesting, but I feel like it means one player has a bad time in the game. Curious how the unit performs this week and next now that people will respect their damage output. They have so many rules that the opponents probably didn't put all the pieces together in many cases to realize their true threat. Brigid has no problems running to enable a good charge turn from Caul. You sacrifice some damage but still get a ton of output that way if required. Good point, can't believe I forgot that. That means the threat is 11 inches from Caul then. Point is that it is very easy to see their threat range as it is pretty static.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 7, 2018 18:06:49 GMT
Brigid has no problems running to enable a good charge turn from Caul. You sacrifice some damage but still get a ton of output that way if required. Good point, can't believe I forgot that. That means the threat is 11 inches from Caul then. Point is that it is very easy to see their threat range as it is pretty static. I really dislike calling a threat range bad because it is "static". Are you relying on your opponents not knowing how far your models threat because you have lots of different buffs? That seems like a bad strategy even at moderate levels of play. I can agree that 11" is not spectacular, but neither is it bad. If you want more, just bring lanyssa or the well for a wayfarer. 13" is long enough for any one imo.
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 7, 2018 19:38:29 GMT
Good point, can't believe I forgot that. That means the threat is 11 inches from Caul then. Point is that it is very easy to see their threat range as it is pretty static. I really dislike calling a threat range bad because it is "static". Are you relying on your opponents not knowing how far your models threat because you have lots of different buffs? That seems like a bad strategy even at moderate levels of play. I can agree that 11" is not spectacular, but neither is it bad. If you want more, just bring lanyssa or the well for a wayfarer. 13" is long enough for any one imo. It's also NOT static at that value. B&C can also benefit from hunter's mark, TK, hellmouth, gallows, and mirrage. If you want to use them play them in lists that play to their strengths. They can get up to 15". Actually the can get up to 19" with Grayle. 3" feat move + 3" vengeance if you use Caul to shield guard a shot for somebody when they have death march on them. Bonus points for swapping over storm rager to caul when grayle activates to feat. Don't like having to missile them out like that? Good thing Loki is in DH now. Use him to fish something in and then B&C don't care how far they can go. Leave your opponent with killing an 8pt unit or trying to kill the 14/19 elusive heavy that did the drag. Bonus points if you can now put a wall or forest in front of them all for extra opponent frustration. Lots of really good options in circle for those two. I was originally down on them but the more I've been looking the more potential I find.
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Post by jisidro on Sept 7, 2018 20:53:19 GMT
I think it's too much to have an 8pt unit threaten to kill a Colossal. Even if the starts have to align for it to happen.
Only 1 thing gives me pause. With the Colossal price coming down infantry skews + 1 colossal are appearing a lot. I think this could become an issue for Hordes for two reasons.
1) Hordes cannot do the same with 1 Gargantuan without a serious survivability issue on our warlock. 2) Hordes's infantry is not at warmachine lvl.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Sept 7, 2018 20:54:52 GMT
I think it's too much to have an 8pt unit threaten to kill a Colossal. Even if the starts have to align for it to happen. Only 1 thing gives me pause. With the Colossal price coming down infantry skews + 1 colossal are appearing a lot. I think this could become an issue for Hordes for two reasons. 1) Hordes cannot do the same with 1 Gargantuan without a serious survivability issue on our warlock. 2) Hordes's infantry is not at warmachine lvl. I think that the enormous amount of counterplay to this unit makes it okay. Don't leave your colossal within 11" of Caul if Brigid is still alive (surely you can kill a 12 Arm 5 box model?). Or just kill Caul, who is a 14/17 8 box model.
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Post by bloodhawk on Sept 7, 2018 20:56:13 GMT
I really dislike calling a threat range bad because it is "static". Are you relying on your opponents not knowing how far your models threat because you have lots of different buffs? That seems like a bad strategy even at moderate levels of play. I can agree that 11" is not spectacular, but neither is it bad. If you want more, just bring lanyssa or the well for a wayfarer. 13" is long enough for any one imo. It's also NOT static at that value. B&C can also benefit from hunter's mark, TK, hellmouth, gallows, and mirrage. If you want to use them play them in lists that play to their strengths. They can get up to 15". Actually the can get up to 19" with Grayle. 3" feat move + 3" vengeance if you use Caul to shield guard a shot for somebody when they have death march on them. Bonus points for swapping over storm rager to caul when grayle activates to feat. Don't like having to missile them out like that? Good thing Loki is in DH now. Use him to fish something in and then B&C don't care how far they can go. Leave your opponent with killing an 8pt unit or trying to kill the 14/19 elusive heavy that did the drag. Bonus points if you can now put a wall or forest in front of them all for extra opponent frustration. Lots of really good options in circle for those two. I was originally down on them but the more I've been looking the more potential I find.
I reread both your response multiple times and I don't quite understand your points. To clarify my point I was simply saying B&C have no inbuilt threat extenders. If you don't have hunters mark and your caster doesn't threat extend with one of the mentioned options then all you have to do is stay 11.1 inches away from Caul to be safe.
I fail to see how I somehow insinuated that I am attempting to trick my opponents into not knowing my threat ranges. Also, I never said 11 inches was a bad threat range. In the current state of MkIII your opponent should know how far all your models threaten at all times, including normal threat extenders, hellmouth, etc. This is a weird conversation, lol.
TLDR: B&C have good standing threat range which can be extended with things in Circle. Opponents can also play around Cauls melee threat.
EDIT: I agree with oncomingstorm. His point is what I was trying to get at.
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 7, 2018 21:08:46 GMT
bloodhawk I read your post as saying that they're bad because they only threat 11.5" and that's easy to play around. If I misread that then I think we have a breakdown in communication. Point I'm trying to make is saying your opponent just has to stay 11.5" away from them is not right either. There's lots of ways to make that not true. Frankly if that's the position people are taking then the exact same thing can be said for any model in this game. Just stay X" away and you're good to go. I also agree that this unit is okay as is. It can do ridiculous things or nothing at all if tagged with the right counter. Kinda sounds like an interesting design space to occupy.
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