blade
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17 
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Post by blade on Apr 11, 2017 14:00:58 GMT
Hey all, FNG here and Im just curious about some of the jack heavy lists and a few other things. Was hoping to get some explanations about the how and why for some of these things.
I really dig the way Khador looks, and I love he idea of the lower model count style jack heavy lists kharchev, hark etc. was kinda wondering what the big differences are between them and what makes each one tick, and the sort of best set up or core for each one and why.
Also curious about uhlans, I've been seeing them crop up in lists lately and I'm wondering what's changed or brought them up into more popularity.
Thanks to any and all for the help/info!
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 11, 2017 16:51:58 GMT
Welcome Komrade!
What is great out Khador jacks is they (for the most part) have great ARM and tons of boxes. We have a decent number of cheap beaters and some awesome Characters with neat tricks.
Ok so our Basic Jacks come on 4 Chassis:
Berserker: Cheap but kind of useless since they can blow up if they use too much focus and their MAT and RAT are terrible.
Juggernaut: Mid-range line with some awesome hitting power and decent MAT. Half of them have Guns but with low RAT they can be hard to use.
Kodiak: The Special forces of Khador Jacks. These guys have Pathfinder and other useful tools.
Devastator: Really tough nuts to crack each with their special tricks.
I normally run:
Marauders - They like to Slam and wreck Colossals. Great jacks for a great price
Juggernauts – They like to crack high ARM with thier giant Axes and/or toss stuff about with open fists. Another great beater with a little more flexibility
Destroyers – They like to lob shots from the back before moving in to finish something off. RAT 4 means you’ll miss but the AOE is decent enough to threaten squishy solos and support.
Kodiak – Pathfinder, Vent Steam, and extra movement are amazing. Plus they are decent beaters.
Ruin - Butcher's character jack, Ruin is cheap and can be Focus efficient so he works in most armies. 2" reach and Dispel on his Mace means he can really wreck things.
Behemoth - Expensive but he is worth it. With Powerful Attack the blast damage is boosted too and Armor Piercing with P+S 12 fists is amazing for tearing things up.
As far as Jack heavy lists one of the key things to remember is most of our jack slow so have SPD buffs or range support to prevent opponents from staying out of charge range.
I haven't played Uhlans yet but I do have them so I can tell you they are a pain to put together. Other than that one of the reasons you might be seeing them more is there is a Iron Fang Theme where they work well.
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blade
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17
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Post by blade on Apr 11, 2017 17:08:09 GMT
Nice thanks for the little breakdown.
Caster wise I've read/heard karchev or hark are the main jack casters. Can anyone give me a heads up on how they function the stregths and weaknesses what the tricks are/ the basic core etc
I've seen a few lists so I know it's common to run 2 kodiak 2 jugg 2 others and maybe a behemoth. But I'm wondering why that's the common load out and what the typical delivery is like first wave kodiak 2nd wave juggs or some such
Thanks!
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 11, 2017 17:35:57 GMT
Can't comment on Karchev but I've played Hark and while he looks like a Gun-Line caster he is arguably better at delivering melee jacks. Mobility is great for our slower jacks, jumpstart is surprisingly useful in a lot of matches, and the the feat lets you take an alpha and still wreck on your turn.
Hark is pretty straight forward in his play style.
Before melee Kodiaks are up front. They walk up vent steam and repo back behind it. 2 or more make a decent cloud wall providing cover for the rest of your army. Mobility lets you move through forests but you still can't see through them so be carefull if you are using terrain for cover you don't lose the chance to charge.
Once you either get and Alpha or take one use the Kodiaks and Marauders to open a hole in the enemy line to move Juggs into the heart of your opponent's army. If you are running Behemoth keep him back the first round of combat to protect Hark and lob shots into the back lines. Then load him up charge him into a high priority target. Focus will be hard to come by, especially if you have to cast mobility but most of our jacks do just fine running on just power ups.
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Post by haraldtorvatn on Apr 11, 2017 17:45:18 GMT
Karchev has two battelgroup upkeep spells, which both are target self (so he can not have them both at the same time). One is road to war, which let one jack advance 3" if one of your models kill something. The other gives all his jacks countercharge. So he aproches the enemy ready to countercharge (If he expects the enemy to charge him). If his jacks start the turn within 11" of the enemy (but not within 8") you try to kill something, use road to war to get one jack closer, kills something else (pehaps using the jack you just moved), move something else closer and so on.
If the enemy charges you, coutercharge should reduce the damage, and when you strike back with what survived, karchev has a feat that lets you hit harder.
Karcev also has a wonderful gun (sp10 knockdown), which really can help the battlegroup, and he is robust enough to be close enough to use it.
His defence is very low and he is to big to hide easily, so be prepared to be hit by everything the enemy tries to hit you with. Some of the things which hits you can ruin your day completely, so bringing Orin against spells and shieldgard against shooting may be a good idea.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 11, 2017 18:03:57 GMT
Before melee Kodiaks are up front. They trample up vent steam and repo back behind it. Fixed that for you. |
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Post by borderprince on Apr 11, 2017 21:24:57 GMT
Also curious about uhlans, I've been seeing them crop up in lists lately and I'm wondering what's changed or brought them up into more popularity. Thanks to any and all for the help/info! Aside from their presence in the new Legion of Steel theme which lots of people are experimenting with, Uhlans got better in the transition to Mk3, which might be why: (1) Gaining boosted charge attack rolls substantially increased the odds on getting a critical knockdown with the lance. (2) YMMV (Your Meta May Vary), but there's been lots of discussion about Mk3 using/intended for more terrain. Relentless Charge becomes more valuable in a context of more terrain on the table. (3) Khador has started to get actual ARM buffs for warrior models (Iron Flesh is now an ARM boosting spell, Strakhov2's and Kozlov's feats). As multi-wound warriors with good ARM to begin with, Uhlans can make good use of that - they can even sometimes survive high-POW single shots. (4) Reposition 3 is much better than Ride by Attacks. Not only does it more total movement, but it enables Uhlans to charge individual targets, then reposition back into base to base for an ARM bonus. Combine that with ARM buffing spells/feats and the Uhlans end up considerably more survivable. (5) YMMV (again), but Mk3 has seen something of a shift to lower model count, with higher value targets. Uhlans are very good cavalry against such targets compared to infantry heavy Mk2. They typically have a longer threat range than heavy jacks/beasts, hit hard enough to do serious damage (especially if buffed with one of Khador's many damange enhancing spells), knockdown the target and then reposition away to enhance their ARM. By contrast, in an infantry heavy meta, Uhlans are overkill. (6) They can be a decent Stormlance deterrent due to their threat range, ARM and hitting power. Can you tell I like them? |
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blade
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17
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Post by blade on Apr 12, 2017 12:50:42 GMT
Ty for all the helpful info guys! It's genuinely appreciated.
Is hark/karchev a good place to start Khador ? Where's a good place to go from there ?
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 12, 2017 15:25:51 GMT
Definitely a great place to start.
From there you can't go wrong with with some ranged units like the widowmakers or Winterguard Rifle Corps with Rocketeers. Once you get some Units like you can for another caster with a different play style like:
Irusk2 - good mixed army caster that is great for range and attrition
Sorcha1 - Simple pop and drop assassination caster who is actually not as simple as she may seem.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 12, 2017 17:14:10 GMT
Man I can't imagine the day that saying "Yes, Kharchev IS a cool place to be for Khador!"
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 12, 2017 17:15:29 GMT
That day is right now!
I don't think you can go wrong with any caster in the faction. It all depends on play style.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 13, 2017 1:15:05 GMT
That day is right now! I don't think you can go wrong with any caster in the faction. It all depends on play style. Harkevitch. =P Oh sure hes a good caster. But he's one I would definitely call "Broken" as in his design doesn't work with itself. The large bonus gained from reposition almost literally works AGAINST Broadsides rather then with it. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 13, 2017 4:25:35 GMT
The large bonus gained from reposition almost literally works AGAINST Broadsides rather then with it. I guess you could use it to get closer to models before using broadside? Like, move up, shoot something that's just in range, reposition farther forwards, shoot something that you couldn't reach before? I'm having a hard time actually imagining a situation where that would be particularly useful to be honest. I'm still not convinced that Reposition works against Broadsides though; they are simply different options that don't overlap very much. It's kinda like saying that having a ranged attack works against having a melee attack because you can't use both at the same time. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 13, 2017 4:39:14 GMT
I'm having a hard time actually imagining a situation where that would be particularly useful to be honest. I'm still not convinced that Reposition works against Broadsides though; they are simply different options that don't overlap very much. It's kinda like saying that having a ranged attack works against having a melee attack because you can't use both at the same time. Well OK not literally, but it was not the thing he needed to up his ranged game. It feels so counter intuitive, but its so...Off. |
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Post by Netherby on Apr 13, 2017 6:35:29 GMT
Well, Hark should probably just get all his ranged nonsense replaced with something useful. But people currently feel like he's good. So maybe he would then be OP?
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