bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jun 30, 2018 7:18:34 GMT
Sure. But I'm not complaining about the faction not getting new models or Themes or whatnot I know about the limited support - I complain about the 70% of the faction collecting dust on my shelf. But hey, that's just me. Maybe someone out there is having a ton of fun with the CL theme or maybe PP's Convergence sales are sky high and that's the reason they drop the CID. Who can tell
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Jun 30, 2018 13:31:03 GMT
I never expected us to get a CID. We're the baby of a guy who left PP. Without his push we get no attention and no love. The saving grace was the creation of other limited release factions. Because there are other LR factions, ones that PP cares about, PP has to give us some attention from time to time too. Otherwise it's a blatent middle finger to the CoC. I'd hardly call getting 2 casters (+Alt history caster) in the last year to be no love... Its way better than caphelyx have gotten if nothing else Two casters, one alt history caster, a second colossal, and access to a mercenary to be precise. Cephalyx still haven’t gotten anything.
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Post by mcdermott on Jun 30, 2018 20:24:06 GMT
Sure. But I'm not complaining about the faction not getting new models or Themes or whatnot I know about the limited support - I complain about the 70% of the faction collecting dust on my shelf. But hey, that's just me. Maybe someone out there is having a ton of fun with the CL theme or maybe PP's Convergence sales are sky high and that's the reason they drop the CID. Who can tell Thats the problem everyone with a limited faction is going to have. When the general meta shifts you aren't going to have as deep a well to pull from for new lists. Convergence was the new hotness for a while, and now the meta's shifted. I also wouldn't make too many judgements until locke comes out and you can start running a bunch of MAT 9 RAT 5 vectors though.
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Post by feketelovag on Jul 1, 2018 11:42:28 GMT
Problem is that the models arent collecting dust on the shelf due to a meta shift but rather the change to recursion during the move over to MKIII. The models werent anything special beforehand either but with the recursion nerf along with all the other changes, they are just not worth playing.
As for the whole CID feelings. Well, while its true that we are a limited faction and shouldnt be expecting anything and be happy with whatever we end up getting. The moment they said that we will be put through the CID, expectations were raised and having that taken away from us is depressing. Regardless of us being a limited release or not they raised our hopes only to dash it later. Just like when they said we will be getting a book only to later come out and say sorry, not going to happen. I can understand their excuses but then they like you should understand that if you say its a limited faction but propose updates only to withdraw those then people will be disappointed and discontent. Dont say stuff that you cant meet, especially not over and over again because then you are just untrustworthy and people wont give two cents about what you say because two weeks down the road you might just change it.
That said, Im quite content with getting 2 new casters (finally) and dont care too much about the loss of the CID. Dont get me wrong, it would have been great if they fixed the infantry so we wouldnt only have ONE playable theme but at least that one we do have is really strong and viable.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jul 1, 2018 14:03:42 GMT
What feketelovag said! It probably is MKIII's fault. While the induction rule became way better and they slighty improved the TEP, the rest of the faction is not broken in any way. Opposite if anything. Why did recursion get nerfed so much, but GF's did not? Stuff like that is just stupid design/decisions imo. And bound to make people angry with PP. Sure MAT 9 jacks are good, but remember 4/6 of the heavies are overcosted. That completely balances it out. It's no Karchev Mad Dog spam, Una2 Griffon spam or Gaspy Slayer spam. It's just Locke and 5-6 mediocre defensive stat heavies. The (world) meta won't care.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jul 21, 2018 1:12:37 GMT
I'd hardly call getting 2 casters (+Alt history caster) in the last year to be no love... Its way better than caphelyx have gotten if nothing else Two casters, one alt history caster, a second colossal, and access to a mercenary to be precise. Cephalyx still haven’t gotten anything. All of these are band-aids. You can bolt on all the shit you want, but if you don't fix the core problem... CoC needs and deserves a rework.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Jul 21, 2018 4:04:00 GMT
All of these are band-aids. You can bolt on all the shit you want, but if you don't fix the core problem... CoC needs and deserves a rework. Well, I would argue but I don't have much experience. From tournament listings that I've seen (though I'm a little behind on the times) they weren't bad. I've also heard that Orion+Conflux+Modulator is a fun new list and uses two of those models I talked about. Facebook group I'm part of seems to believe Iron Mother, Axis, Lucant, Locke (which DANG SHE'S NICE!), and Orion still have great game. I've personally used Syntherion and think he's a solid battle box caster. Yes our infantry isn't the greatest, but coming from mercs... I prefer the infantry we have. The Ult. history caster... yeah I don't really care about, not tourney legal so I probably won't waste my time. Oh, also the inverter is a great jack at 15 points! Our lights are decent, and man induction makes a difference! Just my personal thoughts on the subject, but I don't think we're in DIRE NEED of an update... we've got stuff that works and works well, are a limited faction, and have received a few new toys when right out the gate we were told not to expect updates.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 21, 2018 10:01:02 GMT
Two casters, one alt history caster, a second colossal, and access to a mercenary to be precise. Cephalyx still haven’t gotten anything. All of these are band-aids. You can bolt on all the shit you want, but if you don't fix the core problem... CoC needs and deserves a rework. Not really. Ghost fleet was a dumpster fire, and it was a dumpster fire with far worse stats than CoC's there's no reason to ever create that kind of recursion again. Its the kind of risk you take choosing a limited faction as your main.
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Post by anderfreak on Oct 12, 2018 16:01:19 GMT
CID was always going to be a relatively slow process. I know patience isn't typically the wargame consumer's forte, but I respect that PP is willing to put faith in their community's temperament to put out some neat models that likely wouldn't have ever been produced by a more wary and cynical company.
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Post by claptrap on Oct 13, 2018 20:24:06 GMT
It's not the cancelling that bothers me, per se. It's when PP says something then reverses themselves with little or no explanation.
When CoC first came out, there was a lot of talk about new models coming out, not as frequently as the other factions, but on a somewhat regular schedule. Then DC left PP, and nothing for a couple of years until the Conflux was released (and that was pretty underwhelming at the time). Then there was the combined comnmand/forces of book (or whatever the official name was) that was talked about, then cancelled with no explanation. Then the CID.
Don't get me wrong, I've been happy with the new models this year, and I don't mind having our stuff tacked on to other CIDs, I just wish PP would not talk about something, then cancel it.
On a side note, I think the CID changes to the Foundries will make CL much more playable.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Oct 14, 2018 11:13:16 GMT
+1
To me it's pretty clear that powercreep is now a thing in Warmachine, because they have to sell models. That's fair I guess. What I don't understand is if good Themes/models sells more models, then why the **** don't they want to fix CL??
I ofcourse don't know the sales for CoC infantry, but they gotta be close to 0 since mk3 came out. That's just wasted opportunity imo.. Maybe it's marginal compared to an income of a whole new faction or fixing some of the major ones, but come on. All it takes is an errata to fix stuff which takes minimal effort.
Agreed about the Enigma Foundry. Getting the action back makes a big difference, and was all it needed to be viable in mk3. Besides, I don't think recursion is as good as in mk2. It feels to me that there are more RfP effects in the game and other ways to play around it. Theme forces, spells, soul denial etc.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2018 23:57:54 GMT
It's not the cancelling that bothers me, per se. It's when PP says something then reverses themselves with little or no explanation. When CoC first came out, there was a lot of talk about new models coming out, not as frequently as the other factions, but on a somewhat regular schedule. Then DC left PP, and nothing for a couple of years until the Conflux was released (and that was pretty underwhelming at the time). Then there was the combined comnmand/forces of book (or whatever the official name was) that was talked about, then cancelled with no explanation. Then the CID. Don't get me wrong, I've been happy with the new models this year, and I don't mind having our stuff tacked on to other CIDs, I just wish PP would not talk about something, then cancel it. On a side note, I think the CID changes to the Foundries will make CL much more playable. There are some factual errors in this post. First: there was certainly no developer talk about new models coming out. It was made clear from day 1 that Convergence was a “limited release faction”, and that IF they ever released new models for it, it would be if/when they thought of something cool that added something worthwhile to the faction. Second: it’s not a mystery why Convergence (or Mercenaries, or etc.) didn’t get a command book: Privateer abandoned physical book publishing plans in exchange for the CID process and digital card publishing via War Room and the card database. Privateer changed their minds for business reasons.Remember: model cards were not released as free until about 7-8 months after the new edition released. That shift coincided with the move to CID and digital publishing. It’s not a grand conspiracy against Convergence; it’s just how this thing worked out.
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Post by claptrap on Oct 25, 2018 23:13:19 GMT
It's not the cancelling that bothers me, per se. It's when PP says something then reverses themselves with little or no explanation. When CoC first came out, there was a lot of talk about new models coming out, not as frequently as the other factions, but on a somewhat regular schedule. Then DC left PP, and nothing for a couple of years until the Conflux was released (and that was pretty underwhelming at the time). Then there was the combined comnmand/forces of book (or whatever the official name was) that was talked about, then cancelled with no explanation. Then the CID. Don't get me wrong, I've been happy with the new models this year, and I don't mind having our stuff tacked on to other CIDs, I just wish PP would not talk about something, then cancel it. On a side note, I think the CID changes to the Foundries will make CL much more playable. There are some factual errors in this post. First: there was certainly no developer talk about new models coming out. It was made clear from day 1 that Convergence was a “limited release faction”, and that IF they ever released new models for it, it would be if/when they thought of something cool that added something worthwhile to the faction. Second: it’s not a mystery why Convergence (or Mercenaries, or etc.) didn’t get a command book: Privateer abandoned physical book publishing plans in exchange for the CID process and digital card publishing via War Room and the card database. Privateer changed their minds for business reasons.Remember: model cards were not released as free until about 7-8 months after the new edition released. That shift coincided with the move to CID and digital publishing. It’s not a grand conspiracy against Convergence; it’s just how this thing worked out. I'm not saying there was a conspiracy, certainly. Though I'd disagree with 'factual inaccuracies'. Differences in interpretation, maybe. As for developer talk, DC did in fact talk about CoC with a certain tone which changed after he left. Were there any promises? Of course not. But the tone of the conversation changed. There was significantly less enthusiasm from the devs, and new model scheduling conversations went from 'at irregular intervals' to '...' And at release, the Conflux was pretty underwhelming. As for the Command book, we were promised a book with 2 new models. Then PP stopped production of the books, yes for business reasons. When that happened, Pagani went on the Skorne FB group to acknowledge the fact that the books were cancelled, but not to worry, you'd still get your new models by Christmas. Not so for CoC. No word about the cancellation, or when/if we would see the 2 models planned for that book. To be fair, Orion did go into CID shortly there after, but the timing was suspect. It came with no lead in or forewarning, and was announced within 24 hours of the FB uproar. We still haven't seen the release of the second model. It's in CID now. Granted the assumption I've made is that Locke was in development for CG, not CoC (which, of course, I can't verify). Then the CoC CID was announced, then cancelled. If PP has made a statement to the effect that "Given the limited nature of CoC, we felt it would be more efficient to add models piecemeal to other CIDs", it would have been fine. But they didn't. My point is that PP has consistently changed plans for CoC with little or no transparency. And that is certainly not factually inaccurate.
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Post by michael on Oct 26, 2018 3:09:18 GMT
Well, to be fair, I am pretty sure they never promised transparency with their decisions to begin with, so hey, can’t get worked up about that, right?
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Post by claptrap on Oct 26, 2018 18:52:10 GMT
Well, to be fair, I am pretty sure they never promised transparency with their decisions to begin with, so hey, can’t get worked up about that, right? That is true, but I CAN still be bothered, though.
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