|
|
Post by tesoe on Apr 5, 2018 15:56:39 GMT
Oh hey Eilish. He good example of why people should cool their jets. It's true that Eilish was eventually toned back into acceptability, but if the Devs knew he was way too good to start with, it begs the question 'why did they bother to release the rules like that to begin with?' Was it just to see if people agreed that he was too good? why do they need the community to confirm what is patently obvious? It so they can collect a wider pool of data and make decisions based on that. They can't think of everything, but involving the community means we might think of the things they haven't. Then they can take that info and make better decisions than if they didn't have that data. |
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 15:57:19 GMT
As much as people are complaining that Sev0 and Cain0 are too much like their originals, it could be worse, they could be like Durant1... Just saying. Play it, provide the battle reports like they expect and demonstrate just how broken it is. It's not like it is that hard. Or maybe PP should demonstrate they can do a competent job, rather than making me feel coerced into play testing for them, because if I don't I fear their insanity will go unchecked.
|
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 15:59:39 GMT
It's true that Eilish was eventually toned back into acceptability, but if the Devs knew he was way too good to start with, it begs the question 'why did they bother to release the rules like that to begin with?' Was it just to see if people agreed that he was too good? why do they need the community to confirm what is patently obvious? It so they can collect a wider pool of data and make decisions based on that. They can't think of everything, but involving the community means we might think of the things they haven't. Then they can take that info and make better decisions than if they didn't have that data. If they needed a 'wider pool of data' to see that the initial Eilish was pants on head insanely broken, then there is no hope...
I know that human faeces will taste bad, I don't need to consult people to confirm that for me
|
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2018 16:01:48 GMT
...The last time I have seen people getting this level pissed of was Eilish, and in fact the original Eilish was pretty much as stupid as these zero casters... Oh hey Eilish. He good example of why people should cool their jets. You are missing 2 points: 1) For Eilish we had more than one month for a single model. Here we have 1 week for 4 models. 2) (The most important): The issue isn't if, in the end, community will be able to tone those 4 down enough. The issue is that devs shouldn't have even proposed those models, as they shouldn't have proposed Eilish... First because, as professional devs, I expect them to be able to see that some things are clearly broken. If a random forumite can right away, a professional dev can't pass it through internal playtest and come out saying that it's "strong but ok". Secondly because they are incoherent with themselves, and so confuse the same community they are asking advice from... If devs said that immunity feats were bad (Skarre, Saeryn) and changed them, why they themselves put them back in Una2? If devs said that Stormlances were ok at the peak of their OPness, why then nerfed them months after, when they were already partially surpassed by the meta? If devs said that universal upkeep removal is bad and greatly reduced it on caster, than why release a cheap universal upkeep removal as Eilish that works for everyone? If devs said that Snipe didn't last one day on the Trencher Jr (That had only his buff spell as utility), why then Snipe on a char junior that also does a lot of other things is ok? If devs contraddict themselves, they confuse and piss off the comunity, that looks at them as the unpartial and knowlegeable source of game balance that they clearly can't be if they go against their own guidelines and statement about game balance. |
|
|
|
Post by tesoe on Apr 5, 2018 16:05:59 GMT
It so they can collect a wider pool of data and make decisions based on that. They can't think of everything, but involving the community means we might think of the things they haven't. Then they can take that info and make better decisions than if they didn't have that data. If they needed a 'wider pool of data' to see that the initial Eilish was pants on head insanely broken, then there is no hope...
I know that human faeces will taste bad, I don't need to consult people to confirm that for me
No they need a wider pool of data on how a pants on head insane Eilish effects things. They knew he was busted. They said so. But they can take the data they get from us and use that to judge just how far over the line he is. |
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 5, 2018 16:09:50 GMT
People are asking for Ghost walk on Denny 0 to replace dark seduction... And more people are agreeing with the idea -.-"
I give up. I opened like 16 tabs of threads to read to find hope and the first one is ludicrous beyond measure.
|
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 16:18:10 GMT
If they needed a 'wider pool of data' to see that the initial Eilish was pants on head insanely broken, then there is no hope...
I know that human faeces will taste bad, I don't need to consult people to confirm that for me
No they need a wider pool of data on how a pants on head insane Eilish effects things. They knew he was busted. They said so. But they can take the data they get from us and use that to judge just how far over the line he is. If they need our help for that they should not be Devs |
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2018 16:20:32 GMT
If they needed a 'wider pool of data' to see that the initial Eilish was pants on head insanely broken, then there is no hope...
I know that human faeces will taste bad, I don't need to consult people to confirm that for me
No they need a wider pool of data on how a pants on head insane Eilish effects things. They knew he was busted. They said so. But they can take the data they get from us and use that to judge just how far over the line he is. To be more clear... I could have made Eilish close to his final release version (so gaining at least 3 weeks of testing of crazy op things, and leaving just 1 week for the final retouches) just eyeballing his proposed original card for 5 minutes. I could do the same with these zero casters. In 20 minutes I could propose toned down versions of them that still feel appealing, and that (if everythings goes well this time too) are likely close to what those casters will be after CID. I don't think I'm particularly great as game developer, so it's not me who is super-human, is devs being bad for not being able to do better (or at least the same) than a random forumite as me. Things get finely toned much better if the original product is already acceptable. Losing weeks to state the obvious isn't useful at all, expecially since often the devs try to not touch their "great toy-idea" until forced, and often try to leave the enormous elephant in the room there, trimming the other side things of the model (things often quite nice and fun), and only in the end change the clear op thing, leaving the "side-fun-things" still nerfed and so partially ruined. As an example, I love the super-solo part of the Caine0 card. And I'm worried that, as usual, they'll try to balance the stupid thing (Snipe) by trimming down that part, only to change it in the end and leaving the interesting part of the model ruined in the process (Like Eilish who had some interesting side-abilities that got removed to try to keep his uber-upkeep-removal until the last week). |
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 5, 2018 16:22:10 GMT
I thought we kinda agreed on PP's being not very competent. That's why we have CID in the first place. Personally I don't participate in it specifically because I don't want to do their work for them. You don't have to either.
As for Eilish vs. journeymen I think the key difference is that journeymen make existing faction tech widely available while Eilish gave everyone a very rare and valuable tech that you might not even have in faction at all.
If Cygnar can have +3 arm (that they have on some casters already) on a stick why can't everyone else have something (that they have on some casters already) on a stick? Sure, things can break somewhere because of it, that's why it's tested beforehand.
|
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 5, 2018 16:25:13 GMT
Imma flag that damn comment.
|
|
|
|
Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Apr 5, 2018 16:26:59 GMT
No they need a wider pool of data on how a pants on head insane Eilish effects things. They knew he was busted. They said so. But they can take the data they get from us and use that to judge just how far over the line he is. If they need our help for that they should not be Devs Better tell Blizzard and Riot that they should not be devs because Overwatch and League have semi-public test servers. Such a shame. Seriously, if you can't get that more data is better than less data and everyone is human and can miss stuff then there really isn't a discussion here, just two groups of people arguing past each other. |
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 16:29:34 GMT
If they need our help for that they should not be Devs Better tell Blizzard and Riot that they should be devs because Overwatch and League have semi-public test servers. Such a shame. Do they release Eilish? |
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 5, 2018 16:32:04 GMT
Better tell Blizzard and Riot that they should be devs because Overwatch and League have semi-public test servers. Such a shame. Do they release Eilish? Yes, they sometimes do have overpowered characters who gets toned down in testing. That's the purpouse of testing. |
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 16:33:46 GMT
Yes, they sometimes do have overpowered characters who gets toned down in testing. That's the purpouse of testing. I feel like we are going round in circles, and I am at gaming now, so please refer to my earlier posts, cheerio |
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 16:36:56 GMT
Ok waiting in McDonald's now so one last point to summarise. I wish PP would release close to reasonable models at the start of CID, so we get longer to test something that will actually resemble the finished article, rather than wasting time stating the bleedin obvious and telling them what they must know already
|
|
