gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548 
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Post by gordo on Apr 5, 2018 13:34:25 GMT
I wish I didn't agree with you. PP has always shown "faction favoritism", or at the very least Haley/Denny favoritism. I still hold out hope though that these casters will be limited only to certain play formats (like Champions or league play). Silver lining: in order to play Denny0, they have to NOT play Denny1. Not a problem for them at all. conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0UbY1f1f1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v9uf0lP1fCryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Black Industries !!! Your army contains a CID entry. (Asphyxious 3) Asphyxious the Hellbringer [+24] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] Ragman [4] Soul Trapper [1] Warwitch Initiate Deneghra [4] - Nightwretch [0(7)] I would welcome this list compared to literally any Denny1 list I have ever seen. I have never seen any sacred cow that is defended with such absurd rigor. That list may on fact be objectively better, but it doesn't have soul-sucking "It would have been faster if you had just kicked me in the nuts than played this game" NPE that is a game against Denny. |
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Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2018 13:34:39 GMT
Here we are, commenting about another crazy bunch of models released in CID by PP devs... And with just one week to hopefully correct them...
It should be obvious that giving out buffs outside the Junior battlegroup is bad... They have seen it with Cygnar Ol'JR, where they had a massive limit on design options for 3 editions thanks to Arcane Shield on a stick, and where they had to put the rule of the mandatory jacks because otherwise noone would use it for anything but a buffbot.
They have also seen it with other juniors, and they always arrived at the same conclusion that the buffs should be confined to the BG...
Hell, I even remember one of them commenting that Trencher Junior had Snipe for like 1 day in their internal developement, before realizing that it was crazy good and it was turned down to Fire Group...
And now?
They make Caine0, who is a great super-solo who also happens to have Snipe on a stick?
What the hell, are they trolling us or they forgotten THEIR OWN playtest of just few months ago?
Same goes for other Zeros... Faction wide buffs are bad, create problematic interactions/combos and heavily limit future design space... They themselves made it clear to the ones between us that didn't notice alone, but now they are ignoring their own years of experience and making this huge and clear mistake...
GG...
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Post by W0lfBane on Apr 5, 2018 13:54:41 GMT
The more I think about it the more I think this is probably due to internal politics. Half the dev group thought the concept is awesome, and wanted to surprise the players for the 15th year anniversary. And the other half was like, this shot is busted put it in the CID. And by the time they agreed the CID only had 1 week left
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 5, 2018 14:04:30 GMT
I vote that the community adopt 1 of two options
1 - Create your own equivalent releases.
2 - Create a local ban list.
Thagrosh 0 - Death Shroud, Athanc, Fog of War, Fury's Strength. 6pts. #balance.
[edit] I should note this is intended as a joke.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 5, 2018 14:05:45 GMT
Still holding out hope this is a delayed April Fool's
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 14:07:04 GMT
Still holding out hope this is a delayed April Fool's Ha Ha, no chance of that, they already did the Grymkin Gargantuan as their April Fools |
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Post by tesoe on Apr 5, 2018 14:27:28 GMT
It's starting to get kinda sad the way people start screaming about the sky falling every time PP asks us to test a model they know is either above or below the power curve so they can zero in on it's game balance. That's the whole point of the CID remember? And also remember how pretty much everything to come out of it has been well balanced?
PP: "Hey can you test some models so we don't release something broken?"
Community: "This model is to powerful! It's destroying my entire self image and I will now forsake all forms of entertainment that is not making dubstep tracks using only recording of insects I find in my kitchen!"
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 5, 2018 14:39:22 GMT
It's starting to get kinda sad the way people start screaming about the sky falling every time PP asks us to test a model they know is either above or below the power curve so they can zero in on it's game balance. That's the whole point of the CID remember? And also remember how pretty much everything to come out of it has been well balanced? PP: "Hey can you test some models so we don't release something broken?" Community: "This model is to powerful! It's destroying my entire self image and I will now forsake all forms of entertainment that is not making dubstep tracks using only recording of insects I find in my kitchen!" Because that's not an exaggeration or anything... o.0? It's called "Expectation Violation". A concept that we as humans, through life experience, set up a list of unspoken personal standards. In this case some people expect PP to be very restrained and professional. Others expect wild ass stuff like these models to come out for testing. When either of these scenarios happens the opposing side feel that PP has done wrong and thus they should voice their opinion. So yes, some people get really upset when they CLEARLY CONTRADICT themselves or their own published words. "Saeryn's MKII feat is too strong" -> Una2. "Snipe didn't last a day in testing on a trencher journeyman" -> Caine 0. And on and on. As SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *inhale OOOOOOOOOOOO many people like to put forward here when talking about CID models, and I quote, "WTF! We don't need to test a model to know it's stupid broken because [insert anecdote]". |
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Post by W0lfBane on Apr 5, 2018 14:42:30 GMT
It's starting to get kinda sad the way people start screaming about the sky falling every time Look at my star rating and tell me I'm not justified |
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 5, 2018 14:49:57 GMT
It's starting to get kinda sad the way people start screaming about the sky falling every time PP ... YOu know what would be nice? If the sky could stop falling for like five seconds. Yes I know, that is an exaggeration. But every time I regain any amount of optimism for this game, PP comes around with some new kind of bullshit. More to your point: How much testing do you expect these models to get in one week and at best two iterations (out of which the first was frankly insulting)? |
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Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2018 14:51:24 GMT
It's starting to get kinda sad the way people start screaming about the sky falling every time PP asks us to test a model they know is either above or below the power curve so they can zero in on it's game balance. That's the whole point of the CID remember? And also remember how pretty much everything to come out of it has been well balanced? PP: "Hey can you test some models so we don't release something broken?" Community: "This model is to powerful! It's destroying my entire self image and I will now forsake all forms of entertainment that is not making dubstep tracks using only recording of insects I find in my kitchen!" There is a difference between bringing something that is close to ok but needs small tweaks to bringing something that is clearly and obviously broken. Don't forget that they are professional developers. They are paid to bring out models at the correct level of power by themselves. That they ask help from the community to acheive that is already a mild admission of incompetence (while still way better than releasing OP or UP models, usually you expect from a professional gaming company the ability to do so by themselves), but you would expect that what they bring to the community test to be something at least a bit refined and close to the goal, not something that everyone recognizes as broken 2 seconds after seeing it. Other than that, they clearly said "We tested them, they are powerful, but they are ok"... That phrase alone makes me wonder, expecially since it contraddicts their own previous statements. How can a constumer not feel confused if few months before you say "We tested this simple model with Snipe, but we changed it since Snipe is crazy OP", and few months after you bring out a new model, with great personal abilities (more than the old model), and Snipe on the top of it, and then call it "Powerful but OK"? CID shouldn't a place to throw clearly crazy ideas inside and expect people to do the dev's work, should be a place to make stress tests about almost finished models to find possible little interaction missed during the internal playtest. That's without adding that they clearly said "we are happy about them and find them ok", and in fact they gave us only 1 week to test them... Dunno what you find sad about being pissed off by this kind of service as paying customers... |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 5, 2018 14:57:13 GMT
We got caster version 2 of journeymen in most factions. We probably will get same treatment for caster version 0, i.e. Hordes will get theirs a bit later. I actually like this sort of balance changes when faction gets a crutch support solo more than rebalancing whole lists or introducing new crutch themes. It's cheap for budget. And it's not like the kits of the 0 casters weren't iconic in their factions already. Also the whole journeymen existance implied we should get more than 1 per faction at some time. If anything it should've happened sooner. How can a constumer not feel confused if few months before you say "We tested this simple model with Snipe, but we changed it since Snipe is crazy OP", and few months after you bring out a new model, with great personal abilities (more than the old model), and Snipe on the top of it, and then call it "Powerful but OK"? Is Caine0 available in Trencher theme though to make direct comparison? Snipe is more valuable in theme with big ranged units than in jack theme for example. |
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Post by tesoe on Apr 5, 2018 14:57:47 GMT
It's starting to get kinda sad the way people start screaming about the sky falling every time Look at my star rating and tell me I'm not justified That's a joke, right? You're not seriously implying that a measurement of how often you post online somehow eqates to how rational or valid your opinion is? Because the level of doomsaying parts of the community likes to do every time a new model hits CID is totally unjustified. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 14:59:35 GMT
Just realised there are now five Caines! Caines 0,1,2,3 and Spooky Ghost Caine. Someone at PP has a hard on for Caine
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 5, 2018 15:00:20 GMT
Look at my star rating and tell me I'm not justified That's a joke, right? You're not seriously implying that a measurement of how often you post online somehow eqates to how rational or valid your opinion is? Because the level of doomsaying parts of the community likes to do every time a new model hits CID is totally unjustified. It is a joke. Read his star rating. |
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