Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
|
Post by Xintas on Apr 10, 2018 15:10:01 GMT
I would agree with the assessment of the Zealots; they're nuts. The second slot is a bit of a letdown for me, as I feel that the knights and errants really prefer Ashlynn.
|
|
Fang
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
|
Post by Fang on Apr 10, 2018 17:00:29 GMT
I could definitely be wrong, but I feel like Crosse likes PoM in his resistance more than Ashlynn does. Zealots jam like no other and make superb Lifebound targets. Add the Piper to make them tough on top of their Holy Monolith from the bearer while they shield guard/sacrificial pawn... and recur next turn. Seems good. I know the Choir in LR is almost about as much an auto-include as trenchers for most, but Ashlynn and Crosse aren't really Jack casters and I think the head count is too low with our limited unit FA to justify wasting a slot on a small count support unit. But, again, I could definitely be wrong. It could be, I have yet to play Crosse2 as he wasn't out yet when I had to take a break so I'm not quite sure how he plays. That said, looking at his card my first feeling goes to irregulars for him, though its just a feeling nothing more. I might sneak past the store tomorrow and see if they happen to have him in stock (need some more primer anyway) and try him out in the game I have planned Saturday (most of my models are still in storage ). I definitely agree with you on the low FA, thats why I keep getting Rutger + Talon in my lists with choir (that and I've wanted Rutger + Taryn + Jack in my merc lists since mk2, back when it made even less sense). Though a support unit for the price of a solo, its hard for me to let go. At some point I might proxy the Flameguard/Errants/Zealots under Ashlynn to try out instead of the choir, as I feel the FA strongly. Maybe someday I'll get a unit of trenchers + UA and try that out, as that looks just amazing imo. I would agree with the assessment of the Zealots; they're nuts. The second slot is a bit of a letdown for me, as I feel that the knights and errants really prefer Ashlynn. I really wanna try Gastone + Zealots after hearing from you guys. As for the second unit, what about Daughters for Tough and bringing them to arm 15 for blast protection? Or maybe Flamebringers to get them to 18 arm? I am just spitballing ideas. His feat wants more guns I feel, though it might be a delivery system with stealth and enable some early shooting. I dunno. The more I think about it, looking at his cards, Gastone brings Ghostly (spell and feat) and sprint for ranged units but in LR you have Gibbs giving repo 3, lots of pathfinder, so it feels a bit like its doubling up, though I might be overthinking it. Speaking of Gibbs, hot meal and multiwound infantry, what do you guys think? Do they survive long enough to actually give them a heal?
|
|
|
Post by fallenexile on Apr 10, 2018 19:26:01 GMT
Once PoM hits CID, we can definitely start looking into an Exemplar unit to bring to pair with eithe Choir or Zealots.
Currently, I think the Bastions are a great pairing for Crosse and Zealots. Give them Dauntless Resolve from Crosse and they're Arm 19, HP 5, tough, blessed, magical weapon masters, with P+S 11 reach weapons, who can spread the damage around. The LR theme gives them Payhfinder and Gibbs gives them Repo 3" to offset their Spd 4 and Hot Meal to heal them back to full after a round of evening out all that damage and rolling tough checks. Seems decent.
If only we could take more than a unit of 5...
Sure, Crosse is good in Irregulars too, but I think his ghostly and movement feat are doing more than doubling up pathfinder and Gibbs repo. For me, it feels more like his feat turns the theme bonus to 11 and allows you to really get into the back lines of your opponent.
|
|
Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
|
Post by Xintas on Apr 11, 2018 13:15:44 GMT
My first thought way back when was Bastions, but those who tested it said that they either died too quickly or didn't die enough to generate souls. I still haven't given up on it yet but life has curtailed a good amount of my table time lately.
|
|
|
Post by fallenexile on Apr 11, 2018 14:52:18 GMT
My first thought way back when was Bastions, but those who tested it said that they either died too quickly or didn't die enough to generate souls. I still haven't given up on it yet but life has curtailed a good amount of my table time lately. But you're not bringing them for souls. That's what Zealots are for. And with 19 armor, set defense, 25 boxes, the ability to spread damage out, tough, and Hot Meal from Gibbs, I'm not sure how they die too quickly. He'll, you can add concealment from the Piper if he doesn't need to give the zealots tough for a turn.
|
|
shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
|
Post by shoe on Apr 11, 2018 15:15:31 GMT
My first thought way back when was Bastions, but those who tested it said that they either died too quickly or didn't die enough to generate souls. I still haven't given up on it yet but life has curtailed a good amount of my table time lately. But you're not bringing them for souls. That's what Zealots are for. And with 19 armor, set defense, 25 boxes, the ability to spread damage out, tough, and Hot Meal from Gibbs, I'm not sure how they die too quickly. He'll, you can add concealment from the Piper if he doesn't need to give the zealots tough for a turn. dey spd 4. whether they die quickly or not it will be before they do anything particularly useful
|
|
|
Post by fallenexile on Apr 11, 2018 15:58:58 GMT
But you're not bringing them for souls. That's what Zealots are for. And with 19 armor, set defense, 25 boxes, the ability to spread damage out, tough, and Hot Meal from Gibbs, I'm not sure how they die too quickly. He'll, you can add concealment from the Piper if he doesn't need to give the zealots tough for a turn. dey spd 4. whether they die quickly or not it will be before they do anything particularly useful Gibbs' repo means they can keep up before the charge. With zealots jamming for souls and TGM and jacks firing into things, I think ( see: theorymachine) that they can be delivered. But it's something I'd need to actually test.
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 11, 2018 16:01:11 GMT
dey spd 4. whether they die quickly or not it will be before they do anything particularly useful Gibbs' repo means they can keep up before the charge. With zealots jamming for souls and TGM and jacks firing into things, I think ( see: theorymachine) that they can be delivered. But it's something I'd need to actually test. Repo would not help them move up faster, they cannot run and then repo.
|
|
Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
|
Post by Zeykk on Apr 11, 2018 16:11:56 GMT
Agree on the Repo thing about it not helping. I don't understand the notion in a couple of these threads that Repo helps with speed problems. It's been mentioned with Highshields as well and it does nothing to help them get up the board any faster. The only reason it does for heavy jacks in Hammer Strike is because of its interaction with Trample.
I've played Cinerators and Bastions in LR. They are too slow. Quicken doesn't help much (and they die quickly anyway which is another argument seen above) and Repo definitely won't.
|
|
|
Post by fallenexile on Apr 11, 2018 16:13:12 GMT
Gibbs' repo means they can keep up before the charge. With zealots jamming for souls and TGM and jacks firing into things, I think ( see: theorymachine) that they can be delivered. But it's something I'd need to actually test. Repo would not help them move up faster, they cannot run and then repo. You know... I knew this at one point... My only excuse is it's still early for me.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 11, 2018 16:34:51 GMT
It's been mentioned with Highshields as well and it does nothing to help them get up the board any faster. Repo is good for shield wall units because they can get the shield wall order, walk up, then reposition forward while still being in shield wall, i.e. it allows them to maintain shield wall while moving 3/5" farther a turn than they otherwise could under shield wall.
|
|
Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
|
Post by Xintas on Apr 11, 2018 16:39:37 GMT
My first thought way back when was Bastions, but those who tested it said that they either died too quickly or didn't die enough to generate souls. I still haven't given up on it yet but life has curtailed a good amount of my table time lately. But you're not bringing them for souls. That's what Zealots are for. And with 19 armor, set defense, 25 boxes, the ability to spread damage out, tough, and Hot Meal from Gibbs, I'm not sure how they die too quickly. He'll, you can add concealment from the Piper if he doesn't need to give the zealots tough for a turn. Ignoring the repo thing, I don't think Bastions are probably good enough without Shield guard, and with it, you are choosing them over getting souls quickly. Bringing them is a choice to prioritize delivery of other key pieces (which are...what?) and defense over offense. Again, I haven't gotten to play them and rule them out myself yet, but they have issues for sure.
|
|
|
Post by fallenexile on Apr 11, 2018 16:48:33 GMT
Fang mentioned multi-wound and Hot Meal. In PoM, unless I'm forgetting something, Bastions and Cinerators are the only two non-calv options for multi-wound. Of the two, I think I like Bastions more (On paper. I have not played PoM in LR.)
|
|
Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
|
Post by Choco on Apr 16, 2018 18:10:35 GMT
Fang mentioned multi-wound and Hot Meal. In PoM, unless I'm forgetting something, Bastions and Cinerators are the only two non-calv options for multi-wound. Of the two, I think I like Bastions more (On paper. I have not played PoM in LR.) I'm waiting for a few weeks before I make my final decisions on Bastions/Cinerators. The entire Exemplar sub-faction is going into CID in May. I was not impressed with either so far, but they need help badly.
|
|
crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
|
Post by crow on Apr 16, 2018 18:27:16 GMT
I’ve never been huge on trenchers, so I’m excited to be able to use the cloud wall once CG comes out with Ashlyn. 7 points for the alchemists and either 4 / free for Gorman makes a four man cloud wall that’ll also look boss on the table!
|
|