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Post by midnight on Dec 10, 2017 2:39:18 GMT
Guys, I need some advice , how do I beat butcher 3?
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Dec 10, 2017 4:09:14 GMT
What’s their list?
What are you playing into him and how are you losing?
There will be people who can give you better advice than I, but this info will be helpful for anyone trying to help.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 10, 2017 4:19:41 GMT
We need a lot more information to be able to help you with this.
Are you struggling to deal with Butcher3 himself or his list?
What have you tried playing against him?
What models do you have available?
What does he normally run?
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Post by midnight on Dec 10, 2017 9:06:07 GMT
Here’s my list:
War Room Army
Trollblood - Kolgrimma SOTN
Theme: Storm of the North 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Pyre Troll - PC: 8
Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 0 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5 Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5
THEME: Storm of the North ---
GENERATED : 12/10/2017 04:00:15 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
And he was playing butcher 3 , ruin, some juggernauts, kazi assassins x 2, gun unit, sniper solo, (sp?) yuri the forest dude and two of the forest dude solos.
He took away tough roles on most of his kills either through that spell +2 mat and can’t make tough roles, or the assassins / snipers finishing my dudes off. With butcher being able to potentially threat 15-18 inches it was a tough fight.
I beat the list once and lost to it once but it’s a tough match up. Seeing what you guys would do against the basic butcher 3 list
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Dec 10, 2017 9:18:48 GMT
Doomy3 is usually a good drop. Implacability stops him pulling your beasts in and murdering them all on feat turn, and making him pay double for spells can really help.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 10, 2017 14:48:38 GMT
Doomy3 is usually a good drop. Implacability stops him pulling your beasts in and murdering them all on feat turn, and making him pay double for spells can really help. Implacability And Cost2 flashing blade do make Butcher 3 a sad panda. What gives you the most trouble in the list? Is it Butcher himself? The heavies shouldn’t be too much of an issue for you, and with kolgrimas super accurate sprays you can probably handle the kayazy. You really only need to kill 1 in each unit to turn gang off.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Dec 10, 2017 15:02:28 GMT
You should also be able to use the clouds to your advantage. Either block los or make sure he get -2 to hit heen he is attacking your units or beasts
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 10, 2017 15:31:48 GMT
You should also be able to use the clouds to your advantage. Either block los or make sure he get -2 to hit heen he is attacking your units or beasts Blocking LoS is hard because of the pull. Making him -2 Mat is hard because he has reach. It would take a lot of work lining up all the positioning and threat range measurements.
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Post by ninjapete on Dec 10, 2017 18:25:38 GMT
Grissel2 can make him pretty sad. He doesn’t like getting knocked down, and he really doesn’t like Wailing (if he’s close enough to cast Impending Doom, Wailing will stop him casting anything at all).
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Post by vasquez21 on Dec 10, 2017 18:41:18 GMT
My question is... how he can do 15-18" threat range? What I am missing? 5" + 3" (charge) + 3" (vengence) + 2" energizer + 2" melee...
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Post by ninjapete on Dec 10, 2017 18:44:45 GMT
Impending Doom increases his threat by 3”.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 10, 2017 19:17:52 GMT
My question is... how he can do 15-18" threat range? What I am missing? 5" + 3" (charge) + 3" (vengence) + 2" energizer + 2" melee... If you cloudwall then Butcher should never be able to charge. Don't make sttacks on the dogs unless you can kill Butcher that turn. Straightaway you have reduced his threat by 6".
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 10, 2017 19:25:39 GMT
Also swapping one of the Maulers for an Earthborn could be pretty useful as its animus will prevent it being pushed towards Butcher and it can be used as a roadblock to prevent other models being pulled in too.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 11, 2017 7:25:58 GMT
Butcher doesnt do very much to support his army, so if he does not get to contribute, you should win the attrition. The key to preventing him from contributing is to make sure that if he DOES contribute, you can threaten to kill him. The hard part for us is that his feat does prevent living models from charging him, and if you are close enough to walk and punch, he might be able to drag you in and kill you.
EBDTs and Bouncers are obviously great here, and Doomy 3 too. If you are really confident in your positioning, try and put some ranged damage on him early on. It will trigger vengeance though, so you better be sure what you are doing, but if you can shoot him in the face with a Bomber and do a couple of points it makes the follow up assassination WAY easier.
Tramples will ignore the feat, so if all else fails you can try to trample up to him and punch him. Managing this becomes way more likely if you can put some damage on him early, and preferably if you can knock him down. Same goes for Rush. If you have Rush available you can spread your beasts out so that he can not drag all of them in, and if he goes for one, you should be able to walk up and kill him with the other. This means you do not have Rage up though, so it can be tough.
If you have a DEF skew caster with beasts (calandra, Madrak, Borka 1) you can make great use of whelps. If your beasts are effective DEF 15, he needs to roll 7s to hit, and then it starts taking a lot of attacks to kill them. He can still do it, but the follow up assassination becomes easier if he isnt camping.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Dec 11, 2017 14:25:39 GMT
As mentioned Doomy3 is a good answer. However I don't think you can play Doomy3 in the current meta with Grymkin and Haley3 so prevalent.
Other good caster options are: - Grissel 2: Discord shuts him down. - Grissel 1: Carcophony shuts him down, though I'd argue she's not good enough.
If you don't want to dedicate a caster to it, I'd suggest looking at: Mulg or Dahlia and Skarath
A beast brick with Mulg in it can beat Butcher 3 but you need to learn the matchup and play it well.
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