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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 30, 2017 20:27:09 GMT
I’m seeing a LOT of lists with multiple duplicates of things. Is that for redundancy/unpredictability or just because not enough of our stuff is worth taking so we take the good stuff over and over again? Having seen lots of batreps on YouTube recently, Loki seems an almost must have; extra ranged threat, more board control, MAT7 ARM19 and still 2pt cheaper than Ghetorix. I don’t get why Gheto’ is pointed so high. It’s tempting for the purpose of proxying b4 buying, to try using: Ghetorix as a second Stalker (Ghetorix only seems better w +1 MAT and STR but costs 2 points more, not worth it if not w Kromac1). Druid Overseer as 2nd Blackclad maybe Razorwing Griffon as 2nd Scarsfell I could proxy an Argus and Kaya1 as Kaya2 w Laris - Proxying feels inherently wrong to me, but on a now tiny budget necessary I guess I need extra stones or something just for cheap units if I go so heavy on beasts for a Call of the Wild Theme. All warpwolves are overcosted. Loki and pureblood by 1~ point, others by 2~ points.
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Post by Fudly on Oct 31, 2017 2:44:47 GMT
I’m seeing a LOT of lists with multiple duplicates of things. Is that for redundancy/unpredictability or just because not enough of our stuff is worth taking so we take the good stuff over and over again? Having seen lots of batreps on YouTube recently, Loki seems an almost must have; extra ranged threat, more board control, MAT7 ARM19 and still 2pt cheaper than Ghetorix. I don’t get why Gheto’ is pointed so high. It’s tempting for the purpose of proxying b4 buying, to try using: Ghetorix as a second Stalker (Ghetorix only seems better w +1 MAT and STR but costs 2 points more, not worth it if not w Kromac1). Druid Overseer as 2nd Blackclad maybe Razorwing Griffon as 2nd Scarsfell I could proxy an Argus and Kaya1 as Kaya2 w Laris - Proxying feels inherently wrong to me, but on a now tiny budget necessary I guess I need extra stones or something just for cheap units if I go so heavy on beasts for a Call of the Wild Theme. It's really a result of themes. In the wild hunt, you're pretty likely to get 3 free slots, and your only options are shifting stones, wayfarers, a wilder, and lord of the feast. You need the shifting stones to score circles in sr2017 scenarios. The wilder is good but FA 1. The free charge from the wayfarer's hunters mark is necessary for circle math to work, and lotf is not great. He's ok. The wilder is solid if you are playing a caster with an upkeep. Therefore, in most Call lists, you'll see 2 sets of shifting stones, 2 wayfarers, and a wilder. As far as living warbeasts go, our beasts are overcosted, so we really need to cheat trades with them to come out ahead. Only the stalker is really designed to cheat trades due to sprint. Maybe Ghetorix can with spiny growth, but the feral and pureblood are fire and forget. You'll see them too because we need a source of primal, and wraithbane is key to some matchups; but there is less of a reason to bring multiples outside certain casters. Devourer's host runs 2 units of ravagers largely because they're the best unit. Trackers are good too, but they're FA:1. I would pass on Loki for now and just proxy him if you want him. Before themes dropped, Loki was awesome and in almost every list. After theme drop, he's not allowed in any theme unless you are playing Tanith. I don't think there's a good argument to play out of theme. Loki is good. He's not 29 points good. The circle subreddit updated their buying guide recently. I recommend it: www.reddit.com/r/CircleOrboros/comments/6c177v/circle_buying_guide/
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 31, 2017 4:20:43 GMT
I’m seeing a LOT of lists with multiple duplicates of things. Is that for redundancy/unpredictability or just because not enough of our stuff is worth taking so we take the good stuff over and over again? Having seen lots of batreps on YouTube recently, Loki seems an almost must have; extra ranged threat, more board control, MAT7 ARM19 and still 2pt cheaper than Ghetorix. I don’t get why Gheto’ is pointed so high. It’s tempting for the purpose of proxying b4 buying, to try using: Ghetorix as a second Stalker (Ghetorix only seems better w +1 MAT and STR but costs 2 points more, not worth it if not w Kromac1). Druid Overseer as 2nd Blackclad maybe Razorwing Griffon as 2nd Scarsfell I could proxy an Argus and Kaya1 as Kaya2 w Laris - Proxying feels inherently wrong to me, but on a now tiny budget necessary I guess I need extra stones or something just for cheap units if I go so heavy on beasts for a Call of the Wild Theme. All warpwolves are overcosted. Loki and pureblood by 1~ point, others by 2~ points. Loki is perfectly fine at 19 points. He does so much for a list its unbelievable. His only drawback is that they haven't slotted him into a theme yet which is criminally cruel. All other wolves ... spot on.
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Post by wolfchild on Oct 31, 2017 12:58:00 GMT
Maybe they could at least put a rule that a caster/lock can always take their bonded character beast in their lists, no matter what theme. But yeah, I only saw Ghetorix/Megalith/Brennos. Who even takes Brennos?!
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 31, 2017 13:19:55 GMT
Maybe they could at least put a rule that a caster/lock can always take their bonded character beast in their lists, no matter what theme. But yeah, I only saw Ghetorix/Megalith/Brennos. Who even takes Brennos?! ...That's half the point of the bond rule mate, caster/character combos are unlimited by theme. You can take Loki with Tannith in any theme.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 31, 2017 13:35:10 GMT
streetpizza Well IME he needs puppet master to work reliably. But I do agree about his effectiveness. When loki does work...you are probably going to start winning the game.
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Post by beastofwar on Oct 31, 2017 14:34:23 GMT
I have found the bloodweavers with the witch are our best infantry. They chew through infantry like no tomorrow with killing spree. Denying tough rolls or making things explode is always good.
I find ravagers expensive and can't kill slightly higher armoured targets. I understand they have better threat but most things charging them will kill them. My point is ravagers with ua cost 20 points, 2 units of blood weavers and a witch cost 20. Put that on a table and look at threat range.
The taking multiples of things is happening a lot because a lot of things in our army suck either because they suck or we haven't figured it out yet.
Unfortunately I own one of most things. I believed that in mark 2 variety was key. Having different units/beasts/solos allowed you to handle a variety of problems or give you different solutions.
Do you feel like we need another overhaul or perhaps a bit of tweaking? I mean they produce models that no one in there right mind would take atm either at user error or PP being a bit scum. Either way it's not good for us or PP.
Had mixed success with dev host. Again we smash light infantry but get halted by high armour targets. I hear what you are saying about primaled griffons but I feel like losing control of a war beast for a turn isn't worth it. Chances are it gets primaled charges a h jack/Beast. It will die on the opponents turn, if your lucky it won't but will charge you warpwolf that finished it off. Using lightning strike takes fury off your beast or caster diminishing it's power.
I'm gonna try it but I think that's what will happen. Appreciate the feed back guys thank you. It's nice to hear people having same issues. I'm sure together we will over come it lol.
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Post by Fudly on Oct 31, 2017 14:57:13 GMT
I think bloodweavers are underrated. They are great into some matchups, and they're pretty difficult to remove for how cheap they are. I don't think they're great though, since they want to bunch up due to gang and their melee range, and while ravagers can't kill higher armored targets, they do better against high armored targets than the rest of our infantry.
We definitely need some tweaking, and I believe PP will get around to it. Wolds should get buffed soon, so planning on playing them for the next couple months is a good bet.
The idea behind primaling a griffin to dent a target first before a stalker takes it out is that you're trading an 8 point light for their 12 point heavy instead of trading your 19 point heavy. In call of the wild, the griffin can cast dodge for free, and the stalker can cast sprint for free.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 31, 2017 15:45:40 GMT
Except they don't need to kill the griffon next turn because he will attack the target of their choosing... Meaning they can bypass or ignore it for one turn and kill it next turn when he doesn't have dodge.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 31, 2017 15:54:00 GMT
I think bloodweavers are underrated. They are great into some matchups, and they're pretty difficult to remove for how cheap they are. I don't think they're great though, since they want to bunch up due to gang and their melee range, and while ravagers can't kill higher armored targets, they do better against high armored targets than the rest of our infantry. We definitely need some tweaking, and I believe PP will get around to it. Wolds should get buffed soon, so planning on playing them for the next couple months is a good bet. The idea behind primaling a griffin to dent a target first before a stalker takes it out is that you're trading an 8 point light for their 12 point heavy instead of trading your 19 point heavy. In call of the wild, the griffin can cast dodge for free, and the stalker can cast sprint for free. Honestly all ravagers really "need" to be up to par as medium infantry is to get brutal charge so they can be POW15 base on the charge. It would help them dent heavier targets on an initial charge and they could be buffed to really crack arm with a debuff or Strength buff. Bloodweavers are great for their cost IMO. GW on a stick and decent infantry clearing potential combined with killing spree from the night witch who is already a decent solo? Yeah for 8 points can't really complain about that. The issue is staying power after they commit. Something the ravagers have more of so you cannot rely on lady tharn to hold the line. Wolds are gonna be the hotness for a while I have a feeling most circle lists will be bones paired with some other theme for the next handfull of months. I also agree on the soften up then send stalker in. I have been fiddling around with a Call of the wild list with kromac 1. I only put primal on birds and argi. And then use stalkers with warpath and sprint to finish off the heavy and get 9" away leaving a few lights chilling in the way. We cannot afford to fight fair in the circle so techniques like this are our best way of trading. Another technique is to blast a heavy up on the approach and then apply a stalker to finish the job and sprint away.
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Post by Fudly on Oct 31, 2017 19:01:35 GMT
Except they don't need to kill the griffon next turn because he will attack the target of their choosing... Meaning they can bypass or ignore it for one turn and kill it next turn when he doesn't have dodge. It doesn't matter dude. You're just trying to damage the heavy enough for the stalker to kill it and sprint out. As long as the stalker lives, you're golden. Think of the scarsfell as the pawn in chess. His job is to die productively, and for what it's worth, dodge isn't likely to save the scarsfell from 2 boosted attacks. Scarsfells explode on contact. If circle could kill stuff all day without losing anything, the tears would be endless.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Nov 1, 2017 23:03:53 GMT
If circle could kill stuff all day without losing anything, would be Mk2. Fixed for you
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Post by josephkerr on Nov 2, 2017 3:36:28 GMT
If circle could kill stuff all day without losing anything, would be a completely irrelevant edition. Fixed for you Fixed again.
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Post by beastofwar on Nov 2, 2017 15:33:37 GMT
I'm not saying we shouldn't lose models. My point is our army doesn't have much staying power except constructs (bit they are wack). An example of this was a riphorn, highest natural armour living war beast got killed easily by 3 charging brute thrall. I think they cost a point each maybe 2 each. Our ravagers and skinwalkers would be lucky to dent a Jack. They charged with combo strike at p+s 19. That's the same p+s was ghetorix with warp strength.
I am currently working on a bones list which I plan to drop on Saturday. Going for ultimate denial. Maximum Los blocking with forests and clouds ect.
After that I will try and work on a call of the wild theme. I will drop the list for the bones theme over the weekend and explain why I have taken things and would like to know what you peeps think.
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Post by wolfchild on Nov 2, 2017 23:57:42 GMT
To be fair our light beast are all pretty lame and situational at best. Eg. Compare Rotterhorn/Razorwing Griffon with Cryx Shrike. Ours cost a point more and are just so much worse. All the argii are one trick ponies and slower than before with VERY low MAT/RAT. Our beasts used to rely on higher DEF to force opponents to boost to hit or risk a miss, now so many jacks have MAT7 or even 8 on character jacks and ways to buff/debuf their way to easy hits. We just don’t have the ARM or boxes to weather the damage output of their more powerful efficient attacks. Units too rely largely on higher defence to survive, but there’s so many multi stackable buffs for other factions that a combo of cheap unit+ca/ua+solo means they can hit anything we have with weapons that are usually far higher POW (trading against their low RAT, which really isn’t due to combos).
The Shrike is a perfect example of warjack efficiency. We need to spend 2 fury to get a trample with boosted attack rolls. The Shrike gets that free and at MAT7 so more reliable too. It has a free power up focus and can use 2 more for extra attacks/boosts. After our 2 for trample and animus we only have 1 left. The ability to heal a beast just doesn’t cover the discrepancy, esp when the bird has to stay within control to be forced, meaning exposing you warlock. Even more insulting when u consider our threat 10.5” griffons are lesser warlocked by an 8” control area in Una1 (who will curl up n die if u look at her), these attacks frequently end up being a suicide run, so we lose Griffon AND lesser lock. Cos don’t forget we lost Long leash on our one semi ok bird. Meanwhile u can gear up a Shrike/other jack with max focus, send it off from the limits of ur control area to its max threat beyond that on its suicide run! Almost as good as having long leash anyway.
Basically Im really pissed off with Circle having to work so much harder to do basics and relying on assassination from janky manoeuvres etc to get our wins unless someone makes rookie mistakes. Most of this could be resolved by some minor stat boosts or point reductions and a little more synergy in ua and solo buffs to units.
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