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Post by wolfchild on Oct 25, 2017 12:18:08 GMT
Hey folks, I’m new to the forum so forgive me if I’ve missed this elsewhere:
Has anyone achieved victory with Circle in a manner other than assassination in MkIII?
I run either Kromac1 or Krueger2 and from model collection I can only benefit from the Devourer theme so far. Very limiting.
Contesting is possible but grabbing more than 1 or 2 CPs seems pretty difficult and I usually lose most of the contesting minis in the following player turn. We don’t do attrition well.
PS. Why is LotF not a solo in this theme? He plays like 5/6 points anyway so it shouldn’t be an issue.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 25, 2017 12:34:03 GMT
He is in the theme but he cannot be tken for free... and doesn't add towards free points...
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Post by Nahualli on Oct 25, 2017 12:55:33 GMT
I found out that Devourers Host is very good at attrition and scenario. My best opening strategy for this is a strong flank attack. My favorite scenario to do that is Spread the Net.
If you just run all your tharn to the center, then what you say happens, you only get 2 cps advantage before losing all your army.
I enjoy Kromac1 and Una2 here, with 3 units of blood weavers.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 25, 2017 13:08:56 GMT
Before Sr2017 yes. In fact...I was about 50/50 with assassination and scenario wins. After SR2017? I typically only win on clock or assassination. It is really really really hard for us as a faction to play the attrition game that SR2017 makes us play. I was always a very scenario minded person with circle but now I almost exclusively play lining up assassination runs. I only contest to stay in the game.
I have not played with Krueger 2 enough though and I think he has a really strong scenario game with his feat and spell list. I also think he has potential as an excellent cryx drop but I really need to try it out.
Wurmwood and baldur 2 are the only 2 casters I have been able to consistently pull off scenario pushes with and maintain a lead without losing horribly on attrition. The problem is....outside of constructs our army is paper thin. Even skinwalkers die to the WM spam that is floating around again. The only unit I have personally had success with for scenario in all of MK3 has been sentry stones. Best unit in faction if they were allowed in more themes they would be taken.
Other people have a lot of success with double ravager boats. Its 14, 5 box tough bodies with decent defense and good infantry killing power.
I think call of the wild has potential for scenario with casters like kaya 3 who can skew defense and put our beasts up to def 16+ but even then...warmachine is literally overflowing with really accurate hard hitting attacks now as well as high arm durable single wound infantry. (Sentinels, pikemen, banes, exemplar) I think Circle has been relegated to the "assassination faction" due to the nature of SR2017.
Honestly though, IME you are normally going to win on clock. Circle can mess with opponents activation's and casters like wurmwood make them have to really think about model placement. As long as you have good clock management (something I am still working on) you can typically be up on your opponent in time.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 25, 2017 13:32:30 GMT
I win only on scenario or clock lately (like 70% scenario, 25% clock, 5% assassination)... Circle have a super strong scenario play and isn't reliable at all with assassination.
Just stop playing briky lists or ctr12 locks.
We have good scenario presence with tharns (male and female) and cheap durable pieces like scarsfells and watchers. We have middling treathranges but we are super fast at cruising the table and we can works around terrain in many ways. We chew trought infantry like butter, clearing easily zones and depriving the opponent of contesting pieces.
Just build list for the new steamroller. We have good tools, use them.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 25, 2017 15:02:06 GMT
... Just stop playing briky lists or ctr12 locks. ... You just killed Baldur, Bradigus, Tanith, Una, Grayle, Kaya... Not saying you're wrong, just saying you're killing off most of the faction...
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 25, 2017 15:07:04 GMT
... Just stop playing briky lists or ctr12 locks. ... You just killed Baldur, Bradigus, Tanith, Una, Grayle, Kaya... Not saying you're wrong, just saying you're killing off most of the faction... Well grayle is playable in a devourer's host list. Una is 14"ctrl and works well in devourer's host too. Others have troublesome time on split scenarios. And isn't me is SR2017
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 25, 2017 15:09:58 GMT
I win only on scenario or clock lately (like 70% scenario, 25% clock, 5% assassination)... Circle have a super strong scenario play and isn't reliable at all with assassination. Just stop playing briky lists or ctr12 locks. We have good scenario presence with tharns (male and female) and cheap durable pieces like scarsfells and watchers. We have middling treathranges but we are super fast at cruising the table and we can works around terrain in many ways. We chew trought infantry like butter, clearing easily zones and depriving the opponent of contesting pieces. Just build list for the new steamroller. We have good tools, use them. Circle has amazing assassination vectors. Woldwyrds, purebloods, and our casters can really threaten opponents casters. Kruegr 2, Mohsar, Wumrwood, all project excellent vectors for assassination. Or you can play ctr 12 locks and still win...because tanith is really good as is baldur 2 with the new cid wold heavies.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Oct 25, 2017 15:16:03 GMT
Before Sr2017 yes. In fact...I was about 50/50 with assassination and scenario wins. After SR2017? I typically only win on clock or assassination. Told yourself...
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Post by Nahualli on Oct 25, 2017 15:20:43 GMT
As a side note, Lord of the Feast is a good option when you are not running a full Devourer's host, for example when doing Una2 with 5 griffons. Not enough points for a Death Wolves unit, so LotF can be used. It gets even better if you include the minion cauldron (soon to be available). But if you have the points to include the wolves, they are a better option than LotF. In that case, I would use a Gremlin Swarm for the lower cost.
I agree with the comments about time management, specially with Devourer's Host. I started to play after MKIII was released, so I don't have any practical experience on using lists with lots of activations. One of the best advices I have received recently is to remember that not every unit have to do "work" on their activations. That have helped me release some stress from my turn planning, since there is no point on trying to do a maximized 2 turn if you consume almost all your time on it.
Also, I don't agree with the Ctrl 12 casters being bad at scenario. What is bad is trying to make them work while being in the center of the table. It is really important for a Circle player is to learn how Circle fights best, and that is not like other factions play. Being good at non-predictable plans and heterodox strategies is what I love about Circle, and I believe that with enough experience you can achieve any result that you want, either scenario, assassination or clocking your opponent.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 25, 2017 15:35:05 GMT
Are you guys not thinking of Krueger2 with CID wolds?
Geomancy just gets better the more you have, it's one thing to risk a gallows and quite another to have 2 or 3 at your disposal... He gets the best threat out of our BE. I think he can be at the top of circle again.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 25, 2017 16:04:57 GMT
Before Sr2017 yes. In fact...I was about 50/50 with assassination and scenario wins. After SR2017? I typically only win on clock or assassination. Told yourself... told myself....what? that i think circle has good assassination vectors...that I think SR2017 my personal prefference is to play assassination? not sure what you are trying to say there....I meant 50%of my wins were scenario and the other 50%were assassination not that I had a 50/50 win rate because I would go for assassination. I played control 14+ locks and control 12 Locks before SR2017 and had that type of record because I would intentionally go for scenario wins to make myself a better player. typically my assassination wins came naturally I never forced them or planned for them through the entire game as my main strategy just a back up plan. In Sr2017 I personally, based on my meta and playstyle, have assassination as a main game plan in list construction with scenario as a secondary goal and attrition to come naturally. I don't expect everyone to share this opinion, I expect meta's to be different. Just because it does not work for you, does not mean it doesn't work at all. Plenty of people make control 12 caster work, and I can tell you from experience circle has really good assassination potential. jisidro yes. I actually plan on running Krueger 2 in CiD to try and face Dark host. Even at Pow 10, the lightning AOE's can murder banes on the approach because it gets around the wraith engine aura. Its also a good way to get around covens feat. Use manikins as targets to create a big field of POW 10 nope that the opponent has to trudge through after blowing his feat. It seems pretty good. Thats not even considering TK, gallows, and such for all the control and threat shenanigans.
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Post by rezfon on Oct 25, 2017 17:18:11 GMT
About half my wins come from scenario. My assassination wins tend to come from playing scenario and forcing my opponent to do something silly to stop me winning on scenario.
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Post by wolfchild on Oct 26, 2017 23:30:04 GMT
I’m missing the video battle reports we used to see so many of. I’d watch them n learn so much, but w my old warlocks no one on video ever uses them anymore. I’m really struggling without evidence of how we get there and maintain it, how we achieve scenario wins, but likely folk are using minis from our faction that I just plain don’t like and avoid on principle. I don’t use wolds for example cos they’re pretty ugly models. Guess I got spoiled w lovely warpwolves n find everything else kinda lacking. ..... I still play for scenario, but die so quickly to attrition (we can kill troops fast enough, but not the big things or vice versa), that I end up going for assassination as my only hope of winning. My lists are likely not too competitive anymore as I like most of what appear to be the en vogue options and generally don’t have 2 of everything.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 27, 2017 3:33:08 GMT
I’m missing the video battle reports we used to see so many of. I’d watch them n learn so much, but w my old warlocks no one on video ever uses them anymore. I’m really struggling without evidence of how we get there and maintain it, how we achieve scenario wins, but likely folk are using minis from our faction that I just plain don’t like and avoid on principle. I don’t use wolds for example cos they’re pretty ugly models. Guess I got spoiled w lovely warpwolves n find everything else kinda lacking. ..... I still play for scenario, but die so quickly to attrition (we can kill troops fast enough, but not the big things or vice versa), that I end up going for assassination as my only hope of winning. My lists are likely not too competitive anymore as I like most of what appear to be the en vogue options and generally don’t have 2 of everything. Have you heard of the advanced maneuvers youtube channel? They're a really good source of lists and strategies that I like to watch in my free-time. It helps that it also often features our resident Minions mod Gaston.
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