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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 1:43:11 GMT
Played Vlad 1 in WGI theme. Did pretty darn well. Opponent is new so not the greatest match up for testing but 6 rockets, the fun carriage and then 3 Juggers under V1's feat gets some serious work done. If you don't have volume of attacks it is brutal with those rockets under S&P rolling 4 dropping lowest at POW 12. It was into Retribution though....
The main issue definately is that there are lists out there that can remove that many "dudes" pretty quickly. Need to test it (while gritting my teeth) into Nemo three and more lightening than god. And it will be challenged with Menoth and the dumb choir signing passage. But the Fun Carriage makes Menoth sad with the rough terrian.
No RFP but that is a LOT of Martydoms for Harby to absorb and, again, Fun Carriage for the win.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 27, 2017 2:01:44 GMT
Well this is a bit nonconventional but uh....Harkevitch with Ranged Jacks and Kodiaks.
Call me CRAZEH, but I actually had great success with him against Cryxian Dudespam. It denies good charges and mows down Infantry like a Mudatruka. I even remember one time parking my entire reserve WGRC into a forest by accident but ended up kicking major assage regardless. This was also before the Destroyer Point decrease.
Its also good to use mobility defensively. Just don't be afraid to feat and RUN UP directly towards your opponent. If the infantry can't charge they mostly can't scratch your jacks. Afterwards cloud to disengage and even trample.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 3:44:11 GMT
Well this is a bit nonconventional but uh....Harkevitch with Ranged Jacks and Kodiaks. Call me CRAZEH, but I actually had great success with him against Cryxian Dudespam. It denies good charges and mows down Infantry like a Mudatruka. I even remember one time parking my entire reserve WGRC into a forest by accident but ended up kicking major assage regardless. This was also before the Destroyer Point decrease. Its also good to use mobility defensively. Just don't be afraid to feat and RUN UP directly towards your opponent. If the infantry can't charge they mostly can't scratch your jacks. Afterwards cloud to disengage and even trample. Could definatelty work. Have you played it against the Denny Pirate Boat with thhe big feat ARM swing?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 27, 2017 3:56:53 GMT
Well the best she can do is swing 1-2 at once. And most of the Arm swing is canceled out by Harkevitch Arm swing. And again, if she doesn't get the charge off, the swing doesn't make one gosh darn difference.
And Kodiaks can run 14 Inches Under Mobility. The Average damage Odds of a Warjack Under Harkevitches Feat and Her Feat, and a Parasite is 0.
Edit: without a charge, 2-3 damage WITH a charge.
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Post by Voodoogk on Mar 27, 2017 20:44:21 GMT
My candidates for list2 for myself z1 fang theme.. pretty cool need to play it a bit more to be sure v1 double carriage demolisher juggernaut, andrei/grolar, mortar mortar field gun, min wgi+3 rockets (theme). This shoots everything to death.. think it needs something to be a good pair though (magic guns/sprays probably) hark jack spam.. ofc as you said basically same pairings z2 is my personal choice but I've been running into some difficulties with her at smaller events finding a match to drop her into sometimes. strakh1 may be a jackspam list but it is different than the other kind.. it would give that nemo 3 list a hard time I think since all your jacks will be meleeing all his guns before they get much in the way of shooting. strakh2 may end up being the right one though, i think he's real interesting.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 21:47:11 GMT
My candidates for list2 for myself z1 fang theme.. pretty cool need to play it a bit more to be sure v1 double carriage demolisher juggernaut, andrei/grolar, mortar mortar field gun, min wgi+3 rockets (theme). This shoots everything to death.. think it needs something to be a good pair though (magic guns/sprays probably) hark jack spam.. ofc as you said basically same pairings z2 is my personal choice but I've been running into some difficulties with her at smaller events finding a match to drop her into sometimes. strakh1 may be a jackspam list but it is different than the other kind.. it would give that nemo 3 list a hard time I think since all your jacks will be meleeing all his guns before they get much in the way of shooting. strakh2 may end up being the right one though, i think he's real interesting. You know a really interesting tactic, I think, against Jack gun lines could be to bring Andy2 with a good collection of jacks. Then aggressively advance and feat defensively. Sadly Escort bouses don't apply during their activation but you could EITHER advance backwards (out of range) or FORWARD to engage and tie up. With Escort decent threat range (10 inches). And of course it frustrates alphas like no tomorrow.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Mar 27, 2017 21:56:00 GMT
Yeah Andy2! I really dig his jank, but my continued infatuation with Sorscha1 limits my opportunities to diversify. Hey I've got a killer idea! Why don't you make and play test out a killer Andy2 list, put out reports etc for my reading pleasure and then I can copy your list! Apart from being obnoxious, I actually think that's a cool idea.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 22:10:36 GMT
Yeah Andy2! I really dig his jank, but my continued infatuation with Sorscha1 limits my opportunities to diversify. Hey I've got a killer idea! Why don't you make and play test out a killer Andy2 list, put out reports etc for my reading pleasure and then I can copy your list! Apart from being obnoxious, I actually think that's a cool idea. LOL Question about Sorsha1. I got butt stomped twice this weekend trying to play her into armor (yeah, I know, BAD idea but you gotta see) Kreoss 1 - in MK3 with proper amount of terrain he can go hide to block LOS and she can't - and so he is going to be more threatening on Pop and drop. Now arguably my mistake was not rethinking - and using spammed BC to get the alpha with some armor crackers into his Reckoners...but keep in mind - he has the same threat as I do with those _IF_ I cast BC. Amon - with the book and Indictor. No spells makes windrushing Sorscha sad and then the book and no stationary really irritated her.
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Post by Voodoogk on Mar 27, 2017 22:23:36 GMT
I was trying Andy2 for a bit actually. I think theres more to him that just using the feat defensively, you should instead put veil over the model you have in front, this will allow it to move through its attackers ending up behind them (and threatening whatever is behind that line of enemy). I was at the time running him with croes and bombardiers in an attempt to force people to turn their back to me with the bombers so I could give them backstab as well. That bit of tech was a bit off I guess.. never really managed to make much with it. but the first part always worked. Use it aggressively with veil and you'll like the results.
Still I don't see Andy being a replacement to the guys in the major league from what I've been able to tell.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 22:37:10 GMT
I was trying Andy2 for a bit actually. I think theres more to him that just using the feat defensively, you should instead put veil over the model you have in front, this will allow it to move through its attackers ending up behind them (and threatening whatever is behind that line of enemy). I was at the time running him with croes and bombardiers in an attempt to force people to turn their back to me with the bombers so I could give them backstab as well. That bit of tech was a bit off I guess.. never really managed to make much with it. but the first part always worked. Use it aggressively with veil and you'll like the results. Still I don't see Andy being a replacement to the guys in the major league from what I've been able to tell. I think that if you build Butcher3 (or others) as "armor crackers" what Andy may give you is the list to drop into high powered range (and/or lists where spell hate is a real problem) Innate sack pawn so you don't have to bring "die to breeze" WG. (Why oh Why did we lose bob and weave). As you note, being able to MOVE THROUGH models with Veil to render melee attacks largely irrelevant is, well, HUGE. But so too, it seems to me, to be able to use it defensively. Hit me with a damaging shot, I advance 4 inches...and keep doing it over and over again. Now add the counter charging Pike theme. So now, for example, you can "cover" the flanks and rears of your jacks with the Bears/IFK so that it is that much harder to "run around" and pin your jacks like we all learned to do against Skorne/admonition. Battle mechanics are allowed in Legion of Steel.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 27, 2017 23:20:54 GMT
I was trying Andy2 for a bit actually. I think theres more to him that just using the feat defensively, you should instead put veil over the model you have in front, this will allow it to move through its attackers ending up behind them (and threatening whatever is behind that line of enemy). I was at the time running him with croes and bombardiers in an attempt to force people to turn their back to me with the bombers so I could give them backstab as well. That bit of tech was a bit off I guess.. never really managed to make much with it. but the first part always worked. Use it aggressively with veil and you'll like the results. Still I don't see Andy being a replacement to the guys in the major league from what I've been able to tell. I think that if you build Butcher3 (or others) as "armor crackers" what Andy may give you is the list to drop into high powered range (and/or lists where spell hate is a real problem) Innate sack pawn so you don't have to bring "die to breeze" WG. (Why oh Why did we lose bob and weave). As you note, being able to MOVE THROUGH models with Veil to render melee attacks largely irrelevant is, well, HUGE. But so too, it seems to me, to be able to use it defensively. Hit me with a damaging shot, I advance 4 inches...and keep doing it over and over again. Now add the counter charging Pike theme. So now, for example, you can "cover" the flanks and rears of your jacks with the Bears/IFK so that it is that much harder to "run around" and pin your jacks like we all learned to do against Skorne/admonition. Battle mechanics are allowed in Legion of Steel. You'll find a way forward. I believe in you. =)
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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 23:25:31 GMT
I think that if you build Butcher3 (or others) as "armor crackers" what Andy may give you is the list to drop into high powered range (and/or lists where spell hate is a real problem) Innate sack pawn so you don't have to bring "die to breeze" WG. (Why oh Why did we lose bob and weave). As you note, being able to MOVE THROUGH models with Veil to render melee attacks largely irrelevant is, well, HUGE. But so too, it seems to me, to be able to use it defensively. Hit me with a damaging shot, I advance 4 inches...and keep doing it over and over again. Now add the counter charging Pike theme. So now, for example, you can "cover" the flanks and rears of your jacks with the Bears/IFK so that it is that much harder to "run around" and pin your jacks like we all learned to do against Skorne/admonition. Battle mechanics are allowed in Legion of Steel. You'll find a way forward. I believe in you. =) LOL! I just don't want to drop Butcher3. I really don't. I guess worth trying him menoth. I have enough range elements in that list to shoot out the book. I might as well try and see if It works ;-)
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 27, 2017 23:29:10 GMT
You'll find a way forward. I believe in you. =) LOL! I just don't want to drop Butcher3. I really don't. I guess worth trying him menoth. I have enough range elements in that list to shoot out the book. I might as well try and see if It works ;-) Maybe if you had Alten Ashley instead of Kell Bailoch? Grievous wounds plus 4 snipers means a dead book, even with Harbinger backing it up. Then Butcher gets to play in the sand?
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Post by sand20go on Mar 27, 2017 23:43:23 GMT
LOL! I just don't want to drop Butcher3. I really don't. I guess worth trying him menoth. I have enough range elements in that list to shoot out the book. I might as well try and see if It works ;-) Maybe if you had Alten Ashley instead of Kell Bailoch? Grievous wounds plus 4 snipers means a dead book, even with Harbinger backing it up. Then Butcher gets to play in the sand? If they hadn't made Alton 6 points I would be TOTALLY golden. Plus that is a difficult proposition. Since allowed in the theme(s?) figure you almost always will see Rhovan et. al. in the list....and possibly a third Shield guard. So it will be hard to get that one shot onto the book. The way I have it teched right now gives me 7 snipes. I think I am going to simply run it Vlad1 heavy and maybe drop Kell for a second shield guard (Damm you Caine's Hellslingers!!!). Vlad with 6 rockets can easily dish out enough volume of attack to shut down Harby and errant spam. Vlad with 3 juggers isn't IDEAL into Amon but will still get a ton of work done and should get, baring something strange, the alpha....and I am not sure that Amon can chew through 3 heavies, even under the feat with less than 6-7 of his battle group. If Mobility and synergy then he is max at 2 and that probably isn't a good place for Amon to be.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Mar 28, 2017 0:10:38 GMT
Yes, you are right about Menoth being a real pain in the butt between the Book and Gravus etc. With regard to Kreoss running around terrain to keep out of LOS, that is pretty board dependent, so should not always be a problem. In my latest iteration of Sorscha1, I was definitely at a disadvantage between Gravus and a lot of Jacks that can shake stationary etc. I would have had a difficult time likewise against the Kreoss1 list with the Book and Rhoven etc, but in that case I think the shooting I can deliver with Victor and likely scattering and setting things on fire could have been effective in forcing him to move into me and then I could set loose the Doomreavers! At least that would be my hope... Its a tough matchup for sure because Menoth has all those stupid tricks! Victor of course shuts down Kreoss' FEAT because no knockdown and everything can hide behind him or terrain themselves. With Saxon and dangerous Doomreavers a lot of terrain actually becomes my friend. Ummm but, lol of course I lost my game and I played Kreoss1 vs my Vlad2, report to come, so maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about?
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