wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Mar 25, 2017 0:55:11 GMT
You know that entirely because Strak exists they'll never release a Doom Reaver theme force? Because it will be shit unless Spell Ward -> Sacred Ward, and SPD 8 and DEF 15, ARM 16, or 13 + 5D6 damage is broken even for PP. I am not seeing the logic here I am afraid. There has been a doom reaver theme before, and it was balling. I do have a question about last stand. If strakhov casts it on his unit and kills an enemy warcaster, does the game end before he is destroyed? I'm pretty sure it does.
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Post by Havock on Mar 25, 2017 2:51:55 GMT
Yes, that is correct.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Mar 25, 2017 10:09:03 GMT
Hi guys! I usually play cygnar but boy, i am a bit envious of your new warcaster! I always liked Oleg being a commando and playing it like a spetznaz, i like his attitude in the "tactics" game (I don't wanna do spoiler but he is beastly there, a real modern soldier willing to fight dirty to win). So well, this new Oleg has both personal threat and a very good spell list. The feat, while powerful, doesn't strike me as game breaking but it is surely solid. Now a few considerations: - he can play in many ways. You can use him and his 2 dudes aggressively with reinholdt, delivering 4 AP shots (2 of them can be boosted) onto hard targets, then play the reposition game. just be sure to block ot that can get in melee with them, and they will need quicken or th armor buff up depending on the opponent if you want to play aggressively - He is one of the best buff bots I have seen. has basically anything that infantry likes, and the personal threat of his unit can come into play late game. Used as buff bot (and I think that is the best way to play him) he really likes sylly willy, he has just so many upkeeps. - The unit can have stealth up all game, making it much safer than Caine3 and his dudes - Quicken is a spell i never thought i would have seen in Khador. The defense bonus is already really good, but the threat extender... oh well, that is just mean. Uhlans reach really good defensive stats (14/19 usually, almost storm lances good) while having a massive TR of 15, with some of the most powerful charges in the game. Pikemen benefit much from it as well as kayazy (if the opponent isn't bringing good blasts they will be really hard to deal with). I think it is really great on the MoWs too, sure the DEF buff won't mean much but increased speed is super good on them. Quicken basically turn khador infantry to 11! - Side thing, Last Stand works on warjacks too for some reason. You lose the jack, but well some of your jacks are really cheap and become devastating with that up+some focus. Imagine what a berserker would do with that kind of buff. - Last thing, mercs. I know PP trumped my mercs really bad, and that looked to be the case in kahdor to, but with last stand and quicken things change a bit. Quicken can be great on the nyss, and they already like what Valachev gives them. Last stand will make their melee attacks hit like missiles when needed (they will die after that, but who cares. They hit def 16 on average and deal around 27 points of damage each, wow). I was considering alexia1, can she and her unit benefit from last stand? Sure you need Vally, but damn the risen are a perfect target for last stand and she herself can demolish almost anything in the game with that up, but it's a huge trade at that point. so well... solid caster, for sure!
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Post by tesoe on Mar 26, 2017 18:17:40 GMT
I keep thinking I want Kayazy and cavalry with him. Maybe a couple units if mechaniks or a unit of WGI for a cheap, disposable, target for last stand. Really, really want to take eliminators with him though.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 27, 2017 7:25:05 GMT
Who do you guys think would be a good target for Return Fire? A colossal maybe? They have to be hard enough to kill to survive a ranged attack (but not so hard that the opponent doesn't want to waste ranged attacks on them?) and good enough at shooting to do something with an unboosted shot (or be a model that the enemy is likely to shoot at while it's engaged). Or I guess it just needs to be a good enough shot that the opponent doesn't want to give it that free ranged attack and so doesn't target it, thus protecting it from ranged shooting?
A Widowmaker Marksman has Stealth, so he's probably not going to get shot at very much. A Destroyer is probably a decent choice, nothing wrong with a free Bombard shot, and he's probably going to be staying back so the enemy is more likely to shoot at him than charge him (at least early game). Maybe the Gun Carriage? It has good guns, and between it's mobility and range it can stay away from melee threats quite effectively, thus forcing the opponent to try to use ranged attacks to take it down? How about Beast 09? Taking damage triggers Hyper Agressive; this can allow him to move into melee before triggering Return Fire to make a melee attack.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 27, 2017 8:30:48 GMT
I think the Beast 09 trick would be a bit predictable, and however no one will shot at it if its hyper-aggressive movement would bring it in melee with something.
A jack or a gun Carriage seems a good choice, but i don't know if strak2 likes to run gun carriage, and which jack (or jacks) he wants in his battlegrop. He does very little for them and hasn't so much focus to load up a large battlegroup, of course not a melee one.
He's only nice "jack spell" is quicken, even if expensive. Maybe it would be well on a colossal, i can't see the benefit of casting a 3 FOC spell to give +2SPD to a juggernaut or a marauder, maybe RUin, but also in this case it seems a bit overpriced for me. However, it doesn't fix the MAT6 of colossal. SO maybe destroyers? return fire can be good, but unboostable RAT4 Pow14 AoEs are not so scary to me.
Berzerkers? Last stand let them hit nicely and they are quite sure to hit like DEF15, so why not? With berserk you can broke some models before ending the activation. And if you spend more then 2 FOC, you can also hope it will explode catching more enemies in the blast. But they are slow.
Marauders, also. You can't speed them up but they hit well.
Mad dogs? They are fast if you use the powerup focus to fleet, and with last stand you can use them as kamikaze like the zerkers.
Really don't know, i think we have to think carefully about what jack to use with him.
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Post by skathrex on Mar 27, 2017 8:32:36 GMT
Well Beast is an interesting choice. Not bad, but only relevant once close. Destroyer in theme would be the "easy" choice. His Troopers are a good one too.
But mostly I think its relevant vor the Fun Carriage and Conquest/Victor. Fun Carriage is the best choice I think. Laying Terrain somewhere is pretty good to mess up an opponents turn. Everything else doesn't really survive the shot, or just doesn't get shot.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 27, 2017 8:50:12 GMT
For example,
Strak2 Sylys 3 x maddogs
full MoWST Full MowDC
2x min mechs
Orin MoW Drakuhn
You don't have a target for return fire. Beside of that, you fleet with the maddogs trampling for free in the early game and you move 9". Quicken goes on one unit of manowars, the democorps have inviolable resolve for more armor. You feat the crucial turn for more armor and tough. Mechanics repair the Mows, and are a nice target for last stand, as the maddogs are. Drakhun is there for utilities, as Orin. The kovniks spped up the Mows but they can kill things if they want, sylys is there because of free upkeep (maybe also the gobber would be nice).
Strakhov itself has also a good assassination potential: they can be fast thanks to quiken and overtake, have assault, and with last stand they make 4 full boosted attacks. Of course if you cast both the spells you have only one FOC to buy attacks, but with last stand you'll quite never have to boost to hit, and also the damage is boosted. You can also combo-strike for more damage and the kommandos have brutal charge on their swords.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 27, 2017 10:17:30 GMT
I think the Beast 09 trick would be a bit predictable, and however no one will shot at it if its hyper-aggressive movement would bring it in melee with something. Yeah, I agree that it would be predictable, but I suspect that Return Fire is going to end up as more of a way to encourage your opponent not to shoot your models than as a way to get more shots; if your opponent is not shooting at Beast09 because he doesn't want to deal with the Hyper Agressive / Return Fire combo, then that's kind of good for you too. I am leaning towards the Gun Carriage though, as a model that does work with a single shot and that your opponent probably does want to shoot at. Well, depending on whether he has any big guns or not I suppose. He's only nice "jack spell" is quicken, even if expensive. Maybe it would be well on a colossal, i can't see the benefit of casting a 3 FOC spell to give +2SPD to a juggernaut or a marauder, maybe RUin, but also in this case it seems a bit overpriced for me. However, it doesn't fix the MAT6 of colossal. SO maybe destroyers? On a warjack Quicken is basically a severely inferior version of Superiority; I think the plan is to have it on infantry and only swap it to a Jack if the situation warrants it. Personally I can see having Inviolable Resolve on a warjack for most of the game; it's less useful for most of our small-based infantry, but a Spriggan under Inviolable Resolve has pretty much all the advantages of a Devastator without any of the disadvantages. I do really like the idea of Quicken on Shocktroopers and Inviolable Resolve on Demo Core, shoring up each unit's main weakness. I can see taking Marauders under Strakhov; they are good choices when you don't want to spend focus, and can do work with Last Stand (and you don't mind losing them as much since they are less expensive). Alternately (or concurrently?) clamjacks might be good: they don't need speed buffs as much as most of our other jacks as they aren't as worried about being wrecked by shooting or a faster charging heavy, and again you do have the option of putting Last Stand on them if you need to.
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Post by crimsonguard on Mar 27, 2017 10:36:42 GMT
Last Stand on the Devastator works like a charm. First IR on it and running it up the field, to switch it out for last Stand to kill the enemy warcaster. I won a game like this yesterday, it's a perfectly valid strategy.
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Post by skathrex on Mar 27, 2017 11:01:15 GMT
Does Last Stand work on Rain of Death?
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 27, 2017 11:16:37 GMT
Does Last Stand work on Rain of Death? No, it works on melee atacks only. I suppose the point was a claim is tough enough to arrive b2b with the enemy warcaster, thanks also to bulldoze.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 27, 2017 11:26:14 GMT
Alternately (or concurrently?) clamjacks might be good: they don't need speed buffs as much as most of our other jacks as they aren't as worried about being wrecked by shooting or a faster charging heavy, and again you do have the option of putting Last Stand on them if you need to. Yeah, claims can be a thing. I personally see strakh2 in an ARMskew point of view, so they fit the role. Pluse, if you go MoW heavy, you don't need other heavy hitters. Last stand seems a bit wasted on them (or, better, THEY are a bit wasted with last stand on them), but it can be a nice option when you start running short of boxes. Let's make some math: turn1 you cast quicken and inviolable resolve, 5 FOC. Turn two i assume you upkeep both, so you have 4 FOC, you can cast last stand on something in order to upkeep it for later? I find is more less predictable if you cast it "at the moment". Assuming inviolable resolve is always upkept, you have enugh focus to recast quicken to speed up a fully loaded jack or cast also last stand on something (maybe the quicken target itself, can be also strakhov) for some assassination attempt. Stealth, clouds.
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 27, 2017 11:53:38 GMT
I'd stick return fire on a Conquest.
Maybe even on a Conquest with Quicken or IR.
Then last stand the colossal for much lols.
I'm thinking of chucking him in to Legion of Steel theme. I think it has the potential to work really well with him.
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Post by skathrex on Mar 27, 2017 12:09:03 GMT
I think too, but the problem is fitting it in. Because after the conquest you have exactly 60 points left. Which is pretty weird to fill.
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