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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 23, 2017 17:19:56 GMT
Can't you put 2 upkeeps on the same unit? I'm afraid not. Yeah, if someone sees something special he does for Assault Kommandos that doesn't just work as well or better for other units, please point it out, I haven't really spotted anything. Plus he doesn't even have Strak 1's Veteran Leader rule. I mean, you can still run him with Assault Kommandos, and it should work fine (he has ways of buffing their survivability or damage output), so it's a perfectly fine option if you're going for an anti-cloud or anti-fire or whatever list. But I don't see anything that encourages it. OK, just realised Last Stand is not boosted rolls, it's actually an extra dice. So Alexia could boost on top of that extra dice. Let's math it out: Alexia making 21 attacks at 3 dice for attack and damage rolls against an ARM 19 target does... 21 x 3.5 = 73.5 damage (77 if she charges) on dead-average dice. Alexia making 10 attacks at 3 dice for attack and 4 dice damage, plus one with only 3 dice damage is... 10 x 7 + 3.5 = 73.5 damage (77 if she charges) on dead-average dice. So exactly the same on average against ARM 19, but against higher ARM boosting should be preferable. Also boosting is probably less vulnerable to slightly below-average rolls? But I think the important point here is that Alexia and Strakhov are going to get married, and Strakhov's new mates are going to have to fight over who gets to be the best man. Half the seats will be full of undead, and the other half will be empty because Strakhov is so secretive that he won't tell anyone about the wedding (and also because he keeps casting Last Stand on everyone killing them). Well, he might tell Karchev so he can be the minister. Torch will be there to fire confetti from his grenade launchers, and to cut the wedding cake with his buzzsaw.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 23, 2017 17:24:44 GMT
Can't you put 2 upkeeps on the same unit? I'm afraid not. Yeah, if someone sees something special he does for Assault Kommandos that doesn't just work as well or better for other units, please point it out, I haven't really spotted anything. Plus he doesn't even have Strak 1's Veteran Leader rule. I mean, you can still run him with Assault Kommandos, and it should work fine (he has ways of buffing their survivability or damage output), so it's a perfectly fine option if you're going for an anti-cloud or anti-fire or whatever list. But I don't see anything that encourages it. OK, just realised Last Stand is not boosted rolls, it's actually an extra dice. So Alexia could boost on top of that extra dice. Let's math it out: Alexia making 21 attacks at 3 dice for attack and damage rolls against an ARM 19 target does... 21 x 3.5 = 73.5 damage (77 if she charges) on dead-average dice. Alexia making 10 attacks at 3 dice for attack and 4 dice damage, plus one with only 3 dice damage is... 10 x 7 + 3.5 = 73.5 damage (77 if she charges) on dead-average dice. So exactly the same on average against ARM 19, but against higher ARM boosting should be preferable. Also boosting is probably less vulnerable to slightly below-average rolls? But I think the important point here is that Alexia and Strakhov are going to get married, and Strakhov's new mates are going to have to fight over who gets to be the best man. Half the seats will be full of undead, and the other half will be empty because Strakhov is so secretive that he won't tell anyone about the wedding (and also because he keeps casting Last Stand on everyone killing them). Well, he might tell Karchev so he can be the minister. Torch will be there to fire confetti from his grenade launchers, and to cut the wedding cake with his buzzsaw. Don't forget his drudge buddies from Wrath, who decided to flip the bird to the cephalyx. #DrudgeSquad4Life.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 23, 2017 18:11:01 GMT
I actually'd like to point out how huge armor piercing is on their guns. Against a non-Arcane Shielded full boxes Stormwall, a fully loaded Juggernaut under Last Stand has a 25% chance of one-rounding it by only buying attacks. However, when you throw in the about 13 damage the Death's Whispers do, that chance suddenly jumps to an 82%.
Armor Piercing lets our caster do some damage that breaks the dice curve of our jack's damage, without additional investment.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 23, 2017 18:25:00 GMT
Don't forget his drudge buddies from Wrath, who decided to flip the bird to the cephalyx. #DrudgeSquad4Life. I think that was Reckoning? Spoiler warning if you haven't read that book: I assume they'll be in the undead side since they were all killed in the battle. BTW does anyone know how to hide spoiler text like you can on Dakka?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 23, 2017 18:25:23 GMT
And the close ranged-ness of their guns is quickly counteracted by the fact that they can reposition. Really good stuff.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 23, 2017 18:28:13 GMT
Don't forget his drudge buddies from Wrath, who decided to flip the bird to the cephalyx. #DrudgeSquad4Life. I think that was Reckoning? Spoiler warning if you haven't read that book: I assume they'll be in the undead side since they were all killed in the battle.
BTW does anyone know how to hide spoiler text like you can on Dakka? Like that.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 23, 2017 18:31:43 GMT
For the life of me I can't figure out who I want to target with Last Stand. What do we have access to that can do So much work that we won't mind losing it at the end of the round? I'm looking for something that can punch way above its weight class that losing it will still be a net gain for us. Nothing seems to be coming to mind and I just can't shake this thought that "Last Standing X-es are awesome, but wouldn't Battle Lust/Fury be better?"
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Post by frozenkommander on Mar 23, 2017 18:34:16 GMT
For the life of me I can't figure out who I want to target with Last Stand. What do we have access to that can do So much work that we won't mind losing it at the end of the round? I'm looking for something that can punch way above its weight class that losing it will still be a net gain for us. Nothing seems to be coming to mind and I just can't shake this thought that "Last Standing X-es are awesome, but wouldn't Battle Lust/Fury be better?" That would be Winter Guard Infantry. Quicken/Inviolable Resolve (when facing blasts) plus Tough can keep them around while they're shooting, and then they charge in with Last Stand and Bear's Strength.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 23, 2017 18:36:53 GMT
What he said. On average, 6 points can take down a Khadoran Jack.
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Post by khador247 on Mar 23, 2017 18:45:56 GMT
For the life of me I can't figure out who I want to target with Last Stand. What do we have access to that can do So much work that we won't mind losing it at the end of the round? I'm looking for something that can punch way above its weight class that losing it will still be a net gain for us. Nothing seems to be coming to mind and I just can't shake this thought that "Last Standing X-es are awesome, but wouldn't Battle Lust/Fury be better?" I think the nice bonus of Last Stand is the additional die on the attacks. The last tournament I played I played Kaya3 in two of my three games. In both games I had to contend with DEF 16 warpwolves. I'm picturing weapon master Iron Fang Pikemen attacking with three dice and knocking down a fair amount of the time. I like the sounds of that.
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Post by KingoftheNorth on Mar 23, 2017 18:55:02 GMT
For the life of me I can't figure out who I want to target with Last Stand. What do we have access to that can do So much work that we won't mind losing it at the end of the round? I'm looking for something that can punch way above its weight class that losing it will still be a net gain for us. Nothing seems to be coming to mind and I just can't shake this thought that "Last Standing X-es are awesome, but wouldn't Battle Lust/Fury be better?" Strak2 full retard WGI Spam (in theme) Joe and 5 full units with UA...a few rockets sprinkled in for flavour or a 6th min unit with UA. Minimum Jack points used so Jugg Marauder. Ridiculous
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Mar 23, 2017 19:07:43 GMT
Can someone math out Last Standed, Backstabbing, charging Kayazy for me? Just for curiosities sake.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 23, 2017 19:09:10 GMT
How are you getting Backstab on them outside a two-caster game? EDIT: You meant assassins, not eliminators. Forgot those exist. EDIT2: And it's 29.5 damage a guy. AKA, about 3 of them will take out a jack.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 23, 2017 19:52:25 GMT
With some janky positioning you could get Last Stand on Alexia_1, she could probably one round a Colossal
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korvald
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by korvald on Mar 23, 2017 23:17:26 GMT
With some janky positioning you could get Last Stand on Alexia_1, she could probably one round a Colossal I'd argue the Irusks can already do that better because she doesn't die at the end. Those who've said the optimal last stand targets are WGI with Bear Strength from Joe are probably right. Last stand feels weird to me on a caster other than Zaal 1. It just works so well with him and Nihilators, and then feeds his feat so that it doesn't feel like a loss when your dudes die from the spell. Without that synergy, idk. It's a cool spell, just not as insanely awesome here as it is elsewhere.
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