sarevok
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by sarevok on Mar 22, 2017 0:29:55 GMT
So the PoD theme is great not to much else to say but the BoH theme is just so lack luster imo. Maybe its because our infantry is just merely okay and needs some love but that's a different conversation.
I don't see how long riders are that great. There kind of slow and lack reach. They have good qualities but those mentioned before weigh heavy on me Fielding them.
Champions I believe are great if over costed for how many units you get. And warders are okay at killing stuff and great shield guards.
I just don't see after making a few lists with the theme that it is really that competitive. I mean for just messing around and playing it's fun and okay but for a serious tournment is anyone having any luck?
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Post by robbleyourworld on Mar 22, 2017 0:58:23 GMT
It's definitely not as obviously useful for every warlock like POD but I think with warlocks who don't need Moses or lists that were considering including a max unit of one of our elite infantry it's worth considering just for free points.
Borka1, madrak3, and madrak2 stand out as locks who could easily run a competitive list in BOH.
Several of our other casters do great things for some of our units too and are worth consideration as well, Hell I'm toying with a Calandra BOH list which I think has some game although only more games will tell on that
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Mar 22, 2017 1:23:36 GMT
I played a simple pub match with it and enjoyed it. I had two units of champions, skaldic and a hero on the board. I also added Sons of Brag just to see how it would feel to have that many weapon masters. The enemy player was running lots of jacks and Def 16 champions survived on the way in and hit HARD on the feat. I was headed towards a victory via assassination when their clock ran out anyways.
It was fun, so I'd say it is good! Lol. I have not seen anyone running it at any tournaments however.
Edit: Madrak 1 btw
Double edit: and when I say I have not seen it at tournaments I mean looking at the lists posted online. I have not been to any tournaments. I'm just getting started this year (as if you didn't know that already when I mentioned Madrak 1, haha).
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Post by allinontrolls on Mar 22, 2017 5:59:16 GMT
In my opinion the strategy with boh is not to get as many free points as possible but to build a good list. Boh is not about the free points like pod it's more about +2" deployment and take down.
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Post by robobengt on Mar 22, 2017 7:50:18 GMT
I intend to try it with Borka soon. I'll bring a min unit of long riders and horthol since they synergize well with his feat, and that will allow a fell caller for my fennblades. The rest is all about takedown.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 22, 2017 9:31:48 GMT
I have yet to play BoH, but that is 100% because i do not see any advantage to doing so for any one except Madrak 2 (and then it is only to get +2 deployment and the take down thing). Warders and Champions and Long riders are all weak choices in my opinion, and a list that encourages me to spam them can not be a good thing.
Note that this is all based on the experience i have had with those units before BoH came out. I see many players posting lists with Madrak 3 and the like and i just do not see why i would ever do that. It is all theorycraft though and i have been wrong before (lots of times lol).
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Mar 22, 2017 9:44:29 GMT
I have yet to play BoH, but that is 100% because i do not see any advantage to doing so for any one except Madrak 2 (and then it is only to get +2 deployment and the take down thing). Warders and Champions and Long riders are all weak choices in my opinion, and a list that encourages me to spam them can not be a good thing. Note that this is all based on the experience i have had with those units before BoH came out. I see many players posting lists with Madrak 3 and the like and i just do not see why i would ever do that. It is all theorycraft though and i have been wrong before (lots of times lol). Im looking at Madrak3 in BoH at the moment, because I want to see how strong the feat is on a unit of Fenblades.
I also like the idea of a list that is anti tough, anti incorporeal, anti defensive buffs. I agree though, it doesn't fix my issues with the stone, which is a main reason to play in PoD right now, it also might be low on damage.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 22, 2017 12:34:49 GMT
It sure counters the cryx pirate lists i keep hearing about at least Also, spell piercer is better than one might expect against ARM. most super-ARM is spell dependent, and then you do not care. Champs should be able to do work against ARM 20 with no issues, and only a very few things go above that without using spells. When i play Madrak 3 in PoD i lament not having a feat. I played him a couple of times with 20 Kriel Warriors, and then the feat was reasonable. Fennblades should utilize it pretty well. It just feels like Warders/champs/LRs dont really utilize the feat either since there are so few of them. You also do not get any big benefit from Madraks protective aura, so you will have to play a normal kriel stone as well if you want to go lots of multiwound infantry, and then you sort of have an even worse kriel stone problem, especially since you do not even get a runebearer to help you out. I am super bummed out about the restrictions to BoH, and that may cause me to forget about the awesomeness of +2" deployment and super-take down. I am very interested to hear about actual tournament experience with BoH though. Id love to be wrong about it.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Mar 22, 2017 12:44:40 GMT
I run it with Madrak3. I really like it. I find Champions are great, they are super nice with Blessed and Charge of the Trolls. With so much infantry that does a good job at killing things people should have trouble handling both that and the Mountain King I find.
Theme: Band of Heroes
Madrak, Great Chieftain - WB: +29 - Mountain King - PC: 36 - Night Troll - PC: 7
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Stone Scribe Chronicler - PC: 0 Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 5
Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Trollkin Warders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Mar 22, 2017 13:30:33 GMT
It sure counters the cryx pirate lists i keep hearing about at least Also, spell piercer is better than one might expect against ARM. most super-ARM is spell dependent, and then you do not care. Champs should be able to do work against ARM 20 with no issues, and only a very few things go above that without using spells. When i play Madrak 3 in PoD i lament not having a feat. I played him a couple of times with 20 Kriel Warriors, and then the feat was reasonable. Fennblades should utilize it pretty well. It just feels like Warders/champs/LRs dont really utilize the feat either since there are so few of them. You also do not get any big benefit from Madraks protective aura, so you will have to play a normal kriel stone as well if you want to go lots of multiwound infantry, and then you sort of have an even worse kriel stone problem, especially since you do not even get a runebearer to help you out. I am super bummed out about the restrictions to BoH, and that may cause me to forget about the awesomeness of +2" deployment and super-take down. I am very interested to hear about actual tournament experience with BoH though. Id love to be wrong about it. Everything you said is pretty much spot on. I'm basically looking at
Madrak 3 - Mauler - Bomber - Pyre Fell Caller Hero SSC Max Fennblades + UA Max Longriders Max Champions + Skaldi
Not sure it goes into my 2 list pairing. I definitely think it has game as a 3rd list to pair with Grissel2 + beast Brick lists.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 22, 2017 13:45:09 GMT
Pyre troll? Just because?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Mar 22, 2017 14:04:13 GMT
Pyre troll? Just because? I have a theory that opponents will forget about righteous vengeance and leave themselves in charge range. So I wanted the +2 damage.
I'd very much like being able to run Fire eaters with him. It's my first thought for the Northkin theme, before I've seen what the bonuses are.
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Post by Octantis on Mar 22, 2017 15:02:38 GMT
This is my BOH theme I like to run. I was always a fan of the Miserable Meat Mountain in Mk2 and was waiting for a reemergence in Mk3, BOH allowed it to happen. It's a lot of boxes to chew through and with Hoof It Warders can get up the field to cause some real order of operations and other type of havoc. Long riders are in there because I needed something in the list to flank with. Before they were in the list the enemy could focus all attention on crushing the brick now they have to commit some resources away from my main force. Champions on feat turn with Skaldi are great fun. 3X overtaking weapon master hits are good time. As far as beasts go I usually use the bomber to lob barrels over the army and destroy objectives or soften up some warnouns. Mauler is a buff bot on the champions that are about to charge into stuff. The whelps probably aren't needed. I've been burned a few times by my heavies being drug in from the likes of the prime axiom that they are an insurance policy. conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0a580r9D6T6R6O0k0m6l6kbKcCcAcATrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Grissel 1) Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] Horthol, Long Rider Hero [8] Troll Whelps [4] Trollkin Champion Hero [0] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [0] Long Riders (min) [12] Trollkin Champions (max) [17] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] Trollkin Warders (min) [10]
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Post by allinontrolls on Mar 22, 2017 15:51:41 GMT
I played pborka in 2 tournaments and he was really good in the matchups. It's good vs infantry or high def lists this list is not able to crack 5+ arm20 jacks. Pborka is good in delivering long riders with Feat + ward. I really like pborka as a cygnar drop as long as the do not spam jacks in theme or cryx or circle
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Post by Trollock on Mar 23, 2017 20:20:34 GMT
I actually tinkered together a BoH list with Madrak 3 that i think i will try to put on the table. It is built to be an anti shooting drop. Fennblades with feat to get in there and engage things ASAP. They probably will not kill anything, but they are very good at murdering infantry should there be any around. Then i have 4 heavies that follow up, and they will be escorted by 6 Warders. Madrak and the beasts will initially be bunched up in his aura, but some will probably have to leave his aura once the fighting starts. With luck, we will fight on the opponents side of the table, and Madrak can score his own zone to victory. conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0agP9D9D5-5-6G6M0b0ccAcATrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Madrak 3) Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] Fell Caller Hero [0] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] I have no idea if this works in practice, but it feels like i am utilizing Madraks kit pretty well. Fortune on the Fennblades early on, and then i can switch it over to a beast that goes in on something. The protective aura should get me up the field, and not spending points on a kriel stone allows me to field a very big army. The fennblades are probably the best targets for the feat. They become annoying to remove before they get to do work, and since they threaten so far, you can not just ignore them. Spell piercer and rebuke are both problem solving spells that will some times be superb. Even Soothing song will be used on turn 1 some times. Granted that i lack Fury management in general, and the chronicler may have to become whelps, but ill start here i think.
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