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Post by utilitycookie on Mar 19, 2017 11:37:24 GMT
Hi all, I've been a long time Troll and legion player and decided to pick up khador as my WM faction. I play very competitive and am looking to step in at the higher levels. I've attended a couple international tournaments but never faced the motherland! Therefore my knowledge is a bit lacking in this faction's meta. I managed to pick up vlad2 and conquest. From what I understand he can run him competitevly. My question to you guys is, what is a good secondary list to pair him with? I really like all of the butchers but if he is not a good pairing I will not buy him. Could you guys help me out a bit?  Cheers, Utilitycookie |
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 19, 2017 11:50:16 GMT
Well I've run B3 Vlad2 in the past. Its a good pairing.
Vlad2 is one of the best Connie users, Assail is Vlads only BG spell and he really only wants 1 Jack so you might as well take Conquest.
It's up to you then how you go about your lists, but I've always seen Vlad suffer a little on the armour cracking front because his only damage buff is his feat which only works on melee attacks, unless you include hand of fate.
B3 can crack armour like its nobodies business.
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Post by Netherby on Mar 19, 2017 12:05:01 GMT
Vlad2 is the best choice for running Conquest competitively.
There are plenty of viable options to pair with that.
As to Butchers, Butcher1 and 3 are the only ones you can really play competitively. Forget about 2.
I used to pair Vlad2 with Butcher1 a lot. Works fine. But all depends on what other models you want to run.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496 
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Post by Growl on Mar 19, 2017 12:05:11 GMT
As Welshhoppo has said, I think that the Butcher3 Vlad2 combo has pretty good legs. Conquest would not be a good Jack for B3 though in my opinion, not that you were suggesting that, I'm just saying. You should definitely get Ruin, even if you don't go the B3 route because Ruin works with many casters, but is basically a no brainer with B3. With regard to Vlad2, I don't use Conquest with him, I'm actually not a fan of Conquest anyway, but love using Outriders, Drakhuns and Eliminators with him, with other units and Jacks sprinkled to taste.
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Post by utilitycookie on Mar 19, 2017 12:41:50 GMT
Many thanks for the replies! Will probably go with b3. Ruin is indeed a no brainer with him. Does B3 run any infantry? (Like riflecore and rockets) or is it jacks all the way?
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 19, 2017 13:13:01 GMT
Well, he does nothing for infantry outside of Silence of Death, but because Khador's infantry is generally self sustaining, he can use them.
However, I have used B3 a lot, he's my drinking bud.
Basically, you want to use his army to dominate and absorb the enemy list Butcher bullies for scenario. You said you're a competitive player so you'll want to win via points as opposed to assassination as it strengthens your strength of schedule.
Butchers force is ablative armour, to be chipped and cracked away whilst the big man wins you the game by dominating zones and flags. His ability to clear 12 inch zones by himself will often win you games. If you get to a point where your opponents heavy hitters are dead and Butcher is not, you're in a position to win the game. Regardless of what forces you have left.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 19, 2017 16:26:20 GMT
B3/V2 is indeed a good combo. Take a look at Discountgamesinc recent tournament lists for some good ideas. Also the OTC and ATC saw a fair amount of use of both casters.
In terms of getting the most mileage for your dollar with those two casters as your initial investment I will suggest two units of Eliminators, a unit of Winterguard Rifle Corps, Joe and 3 rockets (you can buy a 3 pack at the PP parts store). B3 likes a little ranged support - either a widow maker sniper boat WGRC. Both casters like the war dog.
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Post by utilitycookie on Mar 19, 2017 20:49:50 GMT
Thnxs a lot guys. Helpful tips.
I am thinking about these lists:
War Room Army
Khador - Butcher3
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
- War Argus
- War Dog - PC: 3
- Berserker - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Devastator - PC: 14
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Ruin - PC: 17
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 5
THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
And
War Room Army
Khador - Vlad2
Theme: No Theme Selected
74 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion - WJ: +27
- Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3
- Battle Mechanik Officer - PC: 3
---
GENERATED : 03/19/2017 21:47:25
BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
Not sure about the jacks in butcher3.
I like the theme because it gives him sac pawn as well. Makes me feel like i am playing madrak2 still.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 19, 2017 20:58:40 GMT
I would honestly not recommend switching if your intent is just competitiveness. Power is Fleeting. Khador was below the Curve in MKII, and now its above in MKIII. Who knows what the future brings?
I fear you could burn out yourself by switching all the time.
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Post by utilitycookie on Mar 19, 2017 21:04:34 GMT
I would honestly not recommend switching if your intent is just competitiveness. Power is Fleeting. Khador was below the Curve in MKII, and now its above in MKIII. Who knows what the future brings? I fear you could burn out yourself by switching all the time. Hey rowdydragon, I am not on the verge of fatigue. Just want a warmachine faction to go beside my hordes faction. (True, Legion and trolls are less competitive now, but not the sole reason for switching) My friendly games are going stale. (Same matchups, more of me teaching friends then playing) This way I can start as a newb again and have some fun games again. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 19, 2017 21:29:27 GMT
Alright then. Then Good luck!
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 19, 2017 22:47:24 GMT
Mh, think about the jacks in your butch3r list. I think he likes ruin, devastators and kodiaks.
My current butch3r list is
Butcher
war arguses
devastator
2 kodiaks
ruin
madleyn
widomakers
marksman
kell
orin
ragman
2xbokur
But i'm thinking to switch to
Butch3r
war arguses
maddy
Ruin
Devastator
full MoW boat
widomakers
min mechs
Orin
2x bokurs
kell
marksman
tinker
I think the second option is more solid and gives me more option, even if it still assure butcher protection. I think the key is permit the butcher to be where you want to put him.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 19, 2017 23:06:21 GMT
Your Vlad 2 list is solid. The weak link in your Butcher 3 list is the Beserker. If you're trying to be competitive, the general concensus is that the Beserker chassis is currently garbage. They can be fun filler, and if you already own it fine, but I would hold off buying a kit until we see some errata love.
You are safe as houses with the WGRC set up, and the artillary.
In terms of Jacks with Butcher, he likes Ruin, and everything on the Juggernaut chassis - Kodiak, Marauder, Juggernaut, Destroyer. Devastators are also really good scenario pieces and not overcoated at 14 points.
Luckily, the way you build your list, you can have your cake and eat it too since you made the Field Gun free when you could have made the Mortar free.
BOOM.
That gives you one point to uprade your Beserker to a Marauder, which is the best value for the points you'll find in any faction for a heavy warjack. Also, he'll actually make your Mortar work. Someone brought a colosssal? Too bad, so sad. Make that one tweak and both of your lists are good to go.
Pro tip. (Please listen to me on this. Really). Magnetize your heavy warjack kits. I may be preaching to the choir here but I wish someone had told me that when I first started playing Khador.
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wiking
Light Addition
Smoke me a slipper I will be back for breakfast
Posts: 67
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Post by wiking on Mar 20, 2017 1:23:17 GMT
Also with the new book about to drop and possible themes I would make the book 1 of my main purchases after it has been reviewed rather than sinking cash into stuff which may alter with themes
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Post by borderprince on Mar 20, 2017 6:55:17 GMT
Khador - Vlad2 Theme: No Theme Selected 74 / 75 Army Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion - WJ: +27 - Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4 Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3 - Battle Mechanik Officer - PC: 3 I don't think the Vlad2 list is really maximising his potential. One of the best features of Vlad2's feat is that it can also apply to solos, provided they aren't characters. The Drakhun is a beast with the feat (P+S17 Weapon Master is better than Butcher!). Like Vlad1, Vlad2 works really well at getting a hard-hitting alpha strike, using the feat movement buff. Vlad1 does it with jacks, Vlad2 with warriors. Ideally cavalry as Uhlans are also great. Even if you don't want the Uhlans, the Drakhuns are such a good choice - very accurate, very hard hitting, and a 15" threat via feat. Also great jam the next turn, given the feat's ARM buff. I would seriously consider ditching the Shocktroopers, Kovnik and Mechanik Officer. Get 2 Drakhuns and you've still got 10 points to play with. Personally, I'd ditch one rocketeer and add a min Uhlan unit, but I know many people want the rockets. If that's so, can't ever go wrong with a Marauder. One point about both your lists - you've got a fair ranged presence in both, but nothing to deal with stealth aside from some blast damage. That might be an issue in some matches. |
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