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Post by macdaddy on Aug 30, 2017 19:20:53 GMT
You could always buy like 4 units of skyhammers and run with sevy1. Cover the board with Pow 16 AOE 4's.... Skyhammers are only fa 2 or 3 PSSSHHHHHHH who needs to play with a legal list when you can cover the board with the FIRE AND FURY OF MENOTHS FAITHFUL.
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Post by paradox on Aug 30, 2017 19:49:20 GMT
Here's my MKI throwback: Menoth loves the Boom Boom.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 31, 2017 14:07:34 GMT
So I played the list I posted dropping the devout for a champion and wrack as suggested. Sorry to report guys but the champ is just bad as currently designed. The lance rule coupled with 1" reach on his other weapon is a back breaker. His retaliatory strike benefit for paladins being tied to command when he's going to very quickly out pace them is just bad. His lack of volume of attacks for 8 pts is just bad. They're going to need to break that guy down to basics and build him back up if he's going to see any table time. Didn't help my view of him that I was starring down Skeryth who is the exact same cost but much better and he's free in the guardians theme force. Seriously what's up with that? Battle report here: cid.privateerpress.com/forum/battle-reports/battle-reports/battle-reports-christmas-2017-week-1/40810-harbinger-faithful-vs-kaelyssa-defenders
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Aug 31, 2017 16:33:41 GMT
My comments:
At def18, blast immunity, heals from the hierophant/objective/focus/vessel and 2 shield guards (one is martyrable); what seems to be the problem? She is more survivable than in MK2. Feat needs a rework, maybe to 12" or 14"? Martyrdom however is feat-like awesome each turn.
Keeping 2 or 3 models in the command range of the champion is just the same as keeping specific models in Harbinger's command range or Exemplar models in Gravus's command range. I do agree with the Lance special rule which is a big hassle every time. However, I do think that the 1" range of his other weapon is not the problem as I don't have that problem with Gravus for example. Having only 1 attack is a bit annoying, but the model is meant to be tanky.
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 31, 2017 16:38:53 GMT
How so? Unless you bring the UA, they seem to be objectively inferior to trenchers....who have better attack stats, can use go to ground every turn, and can move+shoot while using go to ground. Idrians are only great relative to things like errants. Someone playing Idrians without the CA is not a real-world scenario. I've never seen a unit played without CA. Ever wonder why the trencher infantry saw play most consistently with Haley3 pre trencher theme? Reposition is huge, particularly with smoke bombs. Tactics: Reposition on a shooting unit with pathfinder is a big plus for Idrians compared to many other shooting units. Plus Idrians have Prey and CRA. A 2 man CRA vs the Prey target is pow15 rat9. Unlike Trenchers, they can do serious damage to almost anything.
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 31, 2017 16:47:10 GMT
So the Covenant got added to the theme and the Champion got bumped up to CMD9. Good changes.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 31, 2017 16:50:04 GMT
My comments: At def18, blast immunity, heals from the hierophant/objective/focus/vessel and 2 shield guards (one is martyrable); what seems to be the problem? She is more survivable than in MK2. Feat needs a rework, maybe to 12" or 14"? Martyrdom however is feat-like awesome each turn. Keeping 2 or 3 models in the command range of the champion is just the same as keeping specific models in Harbinger's command range or Exemplar models in Gravus's command range. I do agree with the Lance special rule which is a big hassle every time. However, I do think that the 1" range of his other weapon is not the problem as I don't have that problem with Gravus for example. Having only 1 attack is a bit annoying, but the model is meant to be tanky. Def 18 is a really misleading statement. She's def 18 and blast immune vs shooting IF you take a 9 point warjack which only provides that benefit if it's standing up. She also starts with the lowest warjack points in faction at 24 so you're playing in a 13 to 15ish point hole from the word go. Just a list of a few things which put her back at def 14: - momentum guns - feats with knockdown - slamming anything into the vigilant - getting a shot angle that doesn't go through the vigiliant - Killing the vigilant (not actually that hard to do) - others I can't think of right now Yes two shield guards are nice but now I'm even more in the hole trying to protect Harby since they can't stray beyond 3" of her and keep her safe. Combine that with the need to keep her back and those shield guards now have a minimum impact on the game. She needs something else and its borne out by the evidence of her complete lack of presence at events. Even a bump up to 28 to 30 WJP would be a good start.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Aug 31, 2017 17:37:26 GMT
So the Champion is "Nearly Perfect", at least according to the Dev Team.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 31, 2017 17:49:30 GMT
So the Champion is "Nearly Perfect", at least according to the Dev Team. was NOT happy with that one. I doubt I'll buy them if this is their vision....the rest of the boat works as well as it used to, so I'll grab them with free points. Other than that, the champs can stay on the shelves.
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Post by stelios on Aug 31, 2017 17:50:10 GMT
In the same way that Bastions are working as intended and totally not gimped?
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 31, 2017 17:56:13 GMT
In the same way that Bastions are working as intended and totally not gimped? we just have to wait for....idk, stormblades or something to get retaliatory. then they'll realize the rule is a bit gimped on the short range models.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 31, 2017 18:25:11 GMT
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 31, 2017 20:38:57 GMT
They can only report on what they see. Having read through the threads, all you guys have given some really great feedback. Hopefully they'll see that as well.
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Post by WantonRanger on Aug 31, 2017 22:07:50 GMT
I have no idea where all this positive feedback for the champion is coming from as it wasn't evident on any of the forum posts or battle reports. They basically all discussed a myriad of problems.
It must be 100% positive on all the "hidden" reports/feedback... to balance this all out.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 31, 2017 22:10:04 GMT
They can only report on what they see. Having read through the threads, all you guys have given some really great feedback. Hopefully they'll see that as well. by your reasoning they're ignoring our feedback for something invisible to us. Somehow I get the creeping feeling this guy's already designed in someone's head and won't get better for a LOOOOOONG time. I'll push hard in the CID now, but I'm not hopeful. They've been kinda hostile on this guy.
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