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Post by sand20go on Jun 11, 2017 15:50:37 GMT
One thing that is interesting is as a faction we currently lack THAT many good ways of delivering sprayers. Greylord T's are old man stats. WGI can be shot off the board by the Long gunners or most anything with range. . Why oh why PP did you get rid of Bob and Weave.
I think you are going to see us start to HAVE to bring some sort of dudes be gone build that is caster centric (Z2, S1). Even more so with the Meta moving toward things like Ghost Fleet.
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Post by tesoe on Jun 11, 2017 17:17:52 GMT
I think Outriders should still be pretty good at delivering spray, especially with the increase in terrain that is supposed to be coming. Setting them aside, we do have our good old anti-trencher unit the assault kommandos with their flame throwers.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 11, 2017 17:59:41 GMT
I think Outriders should still be pretty good at delivering spray, especially with the increase in terrain that is supposed to be coming. Setting them aside, we do have our good old anti-trencher unit the assault kommandos with their flame throwers. Yes. Could be. You really need terrain to help get them to trenchers (CRA from long runners) or Pirates (CRA from the Rifles with Ghost Shot). They are a fantastic unit (love them) but they can be just a bit squishy at 4 points a model and with only Magic 6.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 11, 2017 18:05:19 GMT
Setting them aside, we do have our good old anti-trencher unit the assault kommandos with their flame throwers. Whilst the flamethrowers are good, ironically enough the AKs suck at the role of Trencher killers: A: They don't ignore most cover so their guns generally pretty bad against trenchers. B: In order to disable toughness they need to hit their targets, so this goes back to A C: They have assault, but the flamethrowers don't sync up with how assault works so they don't have it. The AKS will need pretty big revisioning. But man I will love them forever when they do.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 11, 2017 19:04:18 GMT
This is why the UA of the AKs needs to grant them Hunter.
And maybe prey.
And ambush.
And stealth.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 11, 2017 19:06:02 GMT
I'd settle for AOE's that don't need to directly hit to work. Silly and unnecessarily complicated in my view.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 11, 2017 19:07:41 GMT
I'd settle for AOE's that don't need to directly hit to work. Silly and unnecessarily complicated in my view. This underscored. It would have sorta made sense if they created clouds but gas effects aren't clouds. So whyyyyy
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Post by tesoe on Jun 12, 2017 5:22:18 GMT
Setting them aside, we do have our good old anti-trencher unit the assault kommandos with their flame throwers. Whilst the flamethrowers are good, ironically enough the AKs suck at the role of Trencher killers: A: They don't ignore most cover so their guns generally pretty bad against trenchers. B: In order to disable toughness they need to hit their targets, so this goes back to A C: They have assault, but the flamethrowers don't sync up with how assault works so they don't have it. The AKS will need pretty big revisioning. But man I will love them forever when they do. I'm just going to reply in the same order cause it's easiest. A: Dig in is a problem, but they do lose the cover from any trench once the AKs are in the Trench too. Which thematically is what Trenchers are supposed to be doing. With the Blockhouse coming out we might see dig in being used less. I think probably one of the best things the UA could give thematically would be a minifeat that ignore cover and concealment. B: I personally feel that removing tough even on a deviation would be a little to powerful with how big the unit is. C: I don't understand what you mean. The flamethrowers have gunfighter. So they can make charge attacks with their flamethrowers.
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on Jun 12, 2017 6:41:30 GMT
I see. So it sounds like you plan for your enemy to bring only a single unit and some jack. I'm starting to think you might not be all that familiar with trencher models and units. So what you are saying is your hypothetical Trencher force is fielding 2 units of Long Gunners. And Chain Guns. And a Blockhouse. And Trencher Infantry. And enough jacks to dispose of Khadoran jacks after Siege has wasted his feat and all his army's shooting killing the Carriage. Seems legit. What Rowdy is saying is a Carriage is either gonna murderize the infantry or draw a disproportionate amount of firepower/armor cracking (which Trencher theme is kinda missing outside of jacks, and I don't see this theme having room to play many jacks) that's therefore not hitting your FRIKKIN EFFICIENT CHEAP TOUGH jacks... I don't really see how Gravediggers handles a list with several Khadoran heavies and a Carriage.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 12, 2017 7:26:48 GMT
A: Dig in is a problem, but they do lose the cover from any trench once the AKs are in the Trench too. So your mainly dismissing Dig in as a pretty big problem, but saying that the Gun Carriages AOEs don't count as useful (Despite the fact that if they hit trenchers inside a trench they would also be ignoring cover and blast immunity). If you just want to get into melee with them, why not use the Iron Fangs? They also have armor but are more accurate, and cheaper. No it wouldn't at all. Removing toughness at the moment is already BARELY worth the effort. At the moment unless the target also has steady (Which is indeed actually RARE with tough targets overall) its just better to SHOOT the actual target. If they fail the test you kill them. If they don't the next shot/ melee attack will kill them easier then before. With Gunfighter they have to get into melee in order to not fail a charge. That means wasting most of an expanding flamethrower into just one or two closely cuddled together dudes.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 12, 2017 15:33:19 GMT
I just want to point out a trick here that you all should be GENERALLY aware of. Some of us refer to it as under the short hand of "Duck Duck Goose". This is a childs game, played in at least the US, in which a group of children sit in a circle facing each other. One child walks around the outside of the circle saying "Duck...duck...duck" as he taps each of the kids on the head. He then yell "goose" and then the goose chases him around the circle trying to catch him.
Why this story?
Because you can play "duck duck goose" with your eliminators. If the Trenchers dig in and you would like to shoot them for some reason RUN an eliminator toward them. As you run by them you engage them. Parry means no free strikes. By being engaged (it doesn't say that have to STILL be engaged) they are no longer dug in. Now shoot the "ducks" while your goose goes running away ;-)
PS. You can also do with with Fenris or the Drakun but that is much more expensive and you probably are better off simply charging unless, for example under Vlad3, you have speed Fenris up to ridiculous speeds and he can run and do this and get largely back to your lines.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 12, 2017 20:47:04 GMT
It's because when a pair of hot, teenage, anime, ninja, assassins run by in their miniskirts something stands up on the trenchers and makes them lose focus.
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