gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Nov 5, 2018 14:36:20 GMT
Counter-play exists for recursion (LOTS of it, for that matter). Counter-play does not exist for the Well's free solo. This is and always has been the crux of the argument.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 31, 2018 18:56:01 GMT
Yes i did thats why i chose my theme josephkerr. I like the high speed machanics on the ambushing raiders and the cav. But more importantly i like taking my opponents ambush away. No Anistasia, troll bears, kador kossite, cryx machanithralls, and so on. It lets me butty the board well with my list. Also ambushing raiders onto a parisited target(s) is hslarious when they hit at base p+s 15 charge (13 non gang) I've not seen Mechanithralls since mk2. I've not seen Kossites ever. I'm not sure they even exist.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 30, 2018 12:50:03 GMT
At only 1 bonus solo, ditch the theme. It's just holding to back.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 30, 2018 12:47:49 GMT
So here was the complaint about the Novitiate: keeping him alive to deliver the tough bubble is very hard. After that he is just a 2 point +2 strength upgrade. Which isn't bad but isn't breaking any records
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 30, 2018 12:45:22 GMT
Can someone get on the horn with PP and tell them they keep screwing up the base pow of the Immortal Vessels gun. It's 5. All similar Spirit Eyes are 6. This will annoy me to no end. Also.... Did anyone ever find telemetry to be a useful ability? I just don't see it outside the Zaals going on an assassination run. Maybe if they'd changed Spirit Eye into a spell instead of a gun, but whatever I guess. Already done in the CiD: they are aware and this is intentional. For reasons?
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Next CID?
Oct 29, 2018 14:53:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by gordo on Oct 29, 2018 14:53:47 GMT
For me, if I really needed to summarize what I want is this:
I need a compelling reasons to play my existing Legion models over some other faction. Right now, other than Primal Terrors, I do not have compelling reasons to play our other themes.
OoA: There are so many better war-noun based themes out there... It's kinda sad.
CotD: the only compelling reason I can find is our 2 character Nephilim, because no other theme has mirrors for them. Still not good enough. Pass.
Ravens: It's clearly missing some key components compared to other "skirmish-ambush" themes.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 25, 2018 13:13:20 GMT
So I have a thought/theory about this that may mean this is a good thing.
Most of the posts I see are "how you fix this model we think sucks?", "Is there a way to make this model we think sucks worthwhile without changing its rules?", and "I'm struggling to make my army work the way I want it to, here are my attempts to do so, please give me moral support and/or confirm my fears that my dreams will remain unfulfilled". These are certainly the kind of posts I make the most.
Less posts means less of these posts which means maybe as CiDs move along things are getting better? Alternatively, it could just mean that "now that CiD has come and gone, your army still isn't what you want so you can just give up your hopes and dreams and play something else"
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 23, 2018 13:49:04 GMT
Just update Children of the Dragon to give points based on infantry so Legion actually becomes the Nyss faction again. It would really open up the faction (and frankly sell a bunch of models, since otherwise many of those units will never see play/wallets)
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 22, 2018 19:19:55 GMT
So CiD is officially over.
General thoughts are good. I can't tell where Makeda3 will land so that's hard to gauge. Changed to Gargantua, Bronzeback, Canoneer, immortals, and Supreme Guardian are all welcome. Concerned that Novitiates will just end up being attachments for SG as their tough bubble is nearly impossible to keep functioning. Soldier still has no place for me over Titans, Sentinel somehow got worse. Ancestral Guardians still never see any function beyond making my Immortals faster.
All in all, I'm mostly happy with the changes. Almost everything got better, and the stuff that didn't I never used anyway. I'd love a reason to play my Reptile Hounds, or Nihilators, or Cataphracts, but that's about it. It could be so much worse.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 19, 2018 15:49:31 GMT
I'd actually just make it an ability, so the minimal fury savings isn't so egregious:
Once per turn, a warbeast in this models battlegroup in its control range can cast its Animus without being forced.
Now it can't be dispelled, it doesn't cost fury on your initial turn, makes it worth your time regardless of the beasts animus cost, and lets you change which beast uses it without having to recast it.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 19, 2018 2:14:40 GMT
I can't speak to any conspiracy theories, but I can speak to having played Zaal1 roughly half a dozen times. I found that the games I cast that spell it was a total waste of time. I may not be "good enough" or have the right list to notice it's value or haven't played enough games to notice its value. And maybe everyone who agreed with the consensus that Awaken Spirit needs work is also similarly misinformed. Or maybe we are all in cahoots with each other and out to break CiD. Maybe we would not say that Zaal1 is "only nominally in CiD" given that Zaal, being the Supreme Aptimus, is basically the poster child for The Exalted. Maybe an upkeep spell on a warlock is hardly what others would consider an obscure aspect. Dunno man. Funny thing is, I would often agree with you. I have definitely lost some faith in the CiD process and have definitely seen some silly stuff going through it due to sketchy reports. But I would not agree the consensus that Awakened Spirit is rarely worth casting is an example of that. Especially since I hear Kromac2 players complain about it all the time too. Don't strawman me on that. I can't disprove that what I am seeing here is a rapid consensus in the online meta that there was open design space to be lobbied for in Zaal1's Awakened Spirit after some brief attention. My predictions would be that people would be playing Zaal without Beast Handlers a lot now and that playing Zaal1 without Beast Handlers they would begin to value the spell. EDIT: Which is to say not a conspiracy- groupthink. Greedy, lazy groupthink. I meant what I said in that you may in fact be seeing something real that we're not. But I still think the reason why PP listens to the less knowledgeable/skilled contributors is because they still make up the majority of their player base. As for groupthink, I can only speak for myself: I hated Awakened Spirit long before this CiD had begun, and only because of my own experiences with him. However, I don't think you are doing them or yourself any favors by assuming the worst of their intentions. They may simply just not be able to see what you do, or have different ideas about how they would like Zaal1 to play. I don't think that makes them lazy or greedy.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 18, 2018 21:00:30 GMT
We've already argued about this so I don't need to do it again in a different forum. But to answer your question of "I don't understand why the developers listen to players who don't know what they are doing", it's because if the plurality of players don't get how to make a certain core chunk of their rules work, then they won't sell very many models that use that chunk, so they want to change that chunk. I've often heard the argument of "list X is just as good as list Y, it's just more difficult to get good with" as an excuse to not change those rules. And sure, that excuse works for the 2-3 people that have figured those rules out... But those 2-3 people aren't buying enough of those models, and the others who did and who can't figure them out? They are having an NPE and not buying any more models, nevermind the other folks who look at that chunk and go "Nope, that's not going to work. Let me go play some Cryx instead", leaving the other models on the shelves and adding to meta stagnation. This reasoning may be wrong for the top 1% who "get it", but it isn't necessarily wrong for their player base at large nor for PP to sell models. I think that's being too charitable. Instant consensus and agitation on an obscure aspect of a model that is only nominally in CID is suspicious as hell. I can't speak to any conspiracy theories, but I can speak to having played Zaal1 roughly half a dozen times. I found that the games I cast that spell it was a total waste of time. I may not be "good enough" or have the right list to notice it's value or haven't played enough games to notice its value. And maybe everyone who agreed with the consensus that Awaken Spirit needs work is also similarly misinformed. Or maybe we are all in cahoots with each other and out to break CiD. Maybe we would not say that Zaal1 is "only nominally in CiD" given that Zaal, being the Supreme Aptimus, is basically the poster child for The Exalted. Maybe an upkeep spell on a warlock is hardly what others would consider an obscure aspect. Dunno man. Funny thing is, I would often agree with you. I have definitely lost some faith in the CiD process and have definitely seen some silly stuff going through it due to sketchy reports. But I would not agree the consensus that Awakened Spirit is rarely worth casting is an example of that. Especially since I hear Kromac2 players complain about it all the time too.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 18, 2018 17:54:03 GMT
Everyone complained he costed too much for what he did so they made him cheaper when really all we wanted was for him to have more actual effect on the Battle. I suspect they are largely trolling us. There is speculation though that they will allow Ancestral Guardians into other themes though, particularly for Zaal1, so this would have more merit in those cases. But now there's a mass cry that Awakened Spirit doesn't do anything for Zaal1. Cynically, I see people that have no understanding how important it is that Zaal1 camp heavily into the mid-game looking for something generic and powerful to replace a lynchpin utility spell. I am beginning to doubt the CID process. The problem is they actually listen to people, and people don't know what they're talking about. Zaal and Constructs is the one thing in this game I consider myself an expert at, and it's been a real perspective shift on the CID process. (For Haakar, I've come to expect that when people have the resources to take out one of my heavy warbeasts or my Hakaar, they go after my Haakar. Which they ought to, he has the most 'caster kills out of any of models, easily.) We've already argued about this so I don't need to do it again in a different forum. But to answer your question of "I don't understand why the developers listen to players who don't know what they are doing", it's because if the plurality of players don't get how to make a certain core chunk of their rules work, then they won't sell very many models that use that chunk, so they want to change that chunk. I've often heard the argument of "list X is just as good as list Y, it's just more difficult to get good with" as an excuse to not change those rules. And sure, that excuse works for the 2-3 people that have figured those rules out... But those 2-3 people aren't buying enough of those models, and the others who did and who can't figure them out? They are having an NPE and not buying any more models, nevermind the other folks who look at that chunk and go "Nope, that's not going to work. Let me go play some Cryx instead", leaving the other models on the shelves and adding to meta stagnation. This reasoning may be wrong for the top 1% who "get it", but it isn't necessarily wrong for their player base at large nor for PP to sell models.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 17, 2018 21:23:00 GMT
Allowing him into MoW along with other AGs is super relevant. Even with the Veteran leader bonus being wasted outside Zaal2, he brings a lot to some of those lists. The point reduction is good in that context. Right, assuming they do that. I have my doubts, but it would be cool if they did.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Oct 17, 2018 20:26:43 GMT
Hakaar the Destroyer: We had significant feedback that Hakaar was slightly overpriced. Cost 6. Bwuh? He's zero points in any list that takes him. Everyone complained he costed too much for what he did so they made him cheaper when really all we wanted was for him to have more actual effect on the Battle. I suspect they are largely trolling us. There is speculation though that they will allow Ancestral Guardians into other themes though, particularly for Zaal1, so this would have more merit in those cases.
|
|