|
Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 2, 2021 14:54:12 GMT
The conventional wisdom seems to be that jack marshals are hard to justify. So I was looking at B2 for the first time in a very long time and thinking about what model's would work well with his feat. And the obvious answer is models with high quality attacks. Well, I don't think there's too many models with much higher quality attacks than our warjacks... well, that logic obviously has a bunch of flaws, but it did lead me to a thought: B2 has everything a marshaled jack wants! Free charges and threat extension with Boundless Charge, and extra attacks to make use of the marshal's +2 damage bonus with the feat. You can even throw Fury on top if the idea of a Juggernaut making six to eight P+S 24 Magic Blessed attacks* tickles your fancy.
Now, I'm assuming everyone already knows about this and no-one bothers to talk about it because it's actually terrible. But it's new to me, and I think it's hilarious and will definitely run it in my next Warmachine game*. Which will be super-casual and against a new player, so terrible lists which do some kind of stupid jank are exactly what I want. The only question is: what to do about the rest of the list?
*One initial, one for Crush, one with the Forge Seer's Empower focus, three from the feat, and up to two more from another two Empowers if you want to be silly. **Whenever that happens. ***This thread is not for complaining about B2 or wishlisting changes please (coughMichaelcough).
|
|
olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
|
Post by olaf on Mar 2, 2021 19:02:18 GMT
I guess if you wanted to go all in you could do something like...
B2 Spriggan Ruin
Forge Seer Free - Kodiak
Forge Seer Free - Kodiak
Kovnik Free - Destroyer
Kovnik - Decimator
Minimum Bombardier Unit
Main problem being all the inert warjacks once the opponent murders the marshals. Though. I'd still try to play it once. Just to say I did.
I think if you make a slightly less spammy list it might work. Also if you cut out the kovniks you could take it in both greylord and the jack theme.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Mar 2, 2021 19:25:44 GMT
Could swap the Kovniks for the Junior Warcasters to get it in Jaws?
|
|
olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
|
Post by olaf on Mar 2, 2021 20:35:05 GMT
Yeah! And then you'd have two more boundless charges with sorcha if you wanted. Maybe swap one of the ranged jack with a kodiak for malakov, since he buffs their strength and speed. Spd 6, pow 18, str 14 kodiak w/ +2 charge, three focus and b2's feat should do something.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 20:45:33 GMT
Boy, I hope you roll more than a 1 for focus.
(Cough and yes I caught your subtle hint, and no, this isn’t complaining or wishlisting. This is what happens every critical turn when you need B2 to have at least the minimum baseline functionality of a warcaster.)
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Mar 2, 2021 20:49:12 GMT
Focus is a crutch.
|
|
|
Post by Havock on Mar 2, 2021 21:08:09 GMT
Good casters and theme forces are a crutch.
|
|
olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
|
Post by olaf on Mar 2, 2021 21:30:38 GMT
Well break both my legs and throw me at the enemy then.
Anyway, if you ran this in Jaws you could use Ol'Grim and a widowmaker marksman or maybe some scouts. Might help B2s feat a bit. Plus youl'd be running Ol'Grim.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 3, 2021 3:32:00 GMT
Main problem being all the inert warjacks once the opponent murders the marshals. Marshaled warjacks don't go inert, only junior-ed ones... unless it really has been too long and I'm really forgetting the rules? I don't want to run a skew list, that's not new-player-friendly imho. This is where I am right now: conflictchamber.com/?c3200O717p7s9vhFkS6i73[Butcher 2] Kommander Orsus Zoktavir [+28] - Destroyer [14] - Kodiak [13] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [4] - Decimator [15] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10] Croe's Cutthroats (max) [16] Cutthroats are actually Nyss Hunters: Conflict Chamber hasn't updated their cost yet. No themes, and mainly the same models my opponent has seen before. I don't like changing up lists too much against new players; I think it makes it too hard for them to get a handle on the game. I was thinking about trying to use a Rager for the extra speed, maybe under Andy1, but I just couldn't bring myself to take a P+S 14 heavy. Even I have my limits!
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 3, 2021 3:32:49 GMT
This is what happens every critical turn when you need B2 to have at least the minimum baseline functionality of a warcaster. I would be disappointed if it didn't.
|
|
olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
|
Post by olaf on Mar 3, 2021 13:13:37 GMT
That's a lot of conditions, no theme, 50 points, newbie friendly, jack marshals. I think your suggested list is completely workable but I'll post my own just for fun.
B2 - Ruin - Kodiak
Kovnik - Grolar
Ol'Grim Doomreavers Doomreavers
I'm not sure how newbiefriendly it is exactly, but it does contain all of our most gorgeus warjacks and Grim is probably my new favorite sculpt in the faction. And the reavers are perhaps not the best but they still look very nice and I love them.
Oh and I just picked the kovnik cause I like the model. The forge seer is nice but it feels a bit much. It'd probably be better with the forge seer since he has empower.
I have no idea what exactly happens to jacks when they loose their marshal controller, I just thought they went inert cause that's what happens with casters.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 3, 2021 14:07:42 GMT
My list was just for me, it's great to see what others come up with.
Iirc when a marshal dies his jack goes Autonomous, which means he activates normally but obviously doesn't get any Focus or Drives or Jack Marshal benefits. A Warcaster can add the jack to his battle group by going b2b and... spending a focus? I don't remember, I think in Mk2 it required sacrificing an action or something. I think it doesn't happen often since it takes another turn before you can start allocating Focus.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Mar 3, 2021 15:42:40 GMT
This is what happens every critical turn when you need B2 to have at least the minimum baseline functionality of a warcaster. I would be disappointed if it didn't. B2 is a sore spot for me. I had so much fun with him in MK II, but I didn’t realize until the end of MK II just how bonkers broken he was. The new version is...not the same. I had hoped that he’d maybe get some love at some point in the last 4.5+ years.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 3, 2021 16:34:58 GMT
***This thread is not for complaining about B2
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Mar 3, 2021 16:40:02 GMT
His feat was pretty monstrous in Mk2. The number of times I won a game because my opponent was silly enough to start his Warcaster within half the board of a Drakhun was far too high, really.
Removing the extra movement part of his feat and making the tokens be used in activation was needed, I think. But also nerfing Conferred Rage to remove free runs, charges and power attacks really cripples him. It's not like the ability is too powerful; it exists in the form of Alpha Hunter for Legion and Skorne.
But anyway, back on topic; an interesting titbit for people to charge with a Forge Seer if you've got a target. It's a bit of a gamble, and you'll not often have targets within 9", but if you kill something with the attack it generates a Rage token for something whilst also triggering Battle Wizard, letting you Empower a jack as well or Hoarfrost to kill more things. It's essentially trading one guaranteed focus from Empower for the possibility of 2 or more.
Last time I played B2 Jaws was before they errata'd the Junior Warcasters into the theme, but I suspect something similar could be done with Malakov or Sorscha as well.
Playing B2 in general is all about the feat, and you need to strike a balance between things that generate tokens and things that use them. I used to really like Widowmakers as the generators, but you don't see as much SWI these days for them to pick off
|
|