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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 26, 2017 19:14:11 GMT
Yeah, if we could just fill this thread with examples of games that were played in SR 2017 and won on scenario, that would be great, mmkay? I'll start.
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Post by Swampmist on Apr 26, 2017 20:22:50 GMT
ok, time to turn down the passive aggressiveness a bit there bro. Wanting to collect positivity is all well and good, but don't do it just to get back at somebody and\or make a point. I'm leaving this thread up in the hopes that some positivity comes out of it, but believe you me I will dunk it if the need arises.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 27, 2017 5:08:30 GMT
That drudge list is an perfect example of how rediculously strong attrition based lists are in SR2017. That's not a tactical scenario win as much as a "look I have a butload of tough dudes that can hit like trucks...I also have sprays, and two really good heavies" also, Ret player was too passive and left himself horribly exposed for ambush. that game was over regardless of scenario win man. Your gonna have to try harder than that
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Apr 27, 2017 6:53:42 GMT
That is not a standard scenario victory, it's the Mercy Rule in effect not to draw the game against this, obviously too passive an opponent, to 7th turn.
We already know he will lose, once he didn't even try to contest from the start and didn't make any convincing return soon after, so why bother playing all 7 turns ?
Actually all games with no assassination wil end on a scenario victory in 7th turn, as per expectations. All you need is to choose the Deathclock limit that more reasonably accomodates a 7 turn game. 1 hour is only one of the proposed limits for testing, test more of them out.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Apr 27, 2017 8:10:45 GMT
You don't win on scenario any more, not against an opponent that's actually playing the game. You win on assassination, attrition or clock.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 27, 2017 14:26:02 GMT
So the scenarios force you to not hold back like that.
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Post by W0lfBane on Apr 27, 2017 14:48:12 GMT
Yes. The scenarios force you to not stay back and move towards the center of the board. I'm glad that they do the minimum we expect out of scenarios. *snarky* Congratulations PP you made a thing that cleared my minimum threshold for what a scenario should be.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Apr 27, 2017 15:55:05 GMT
At the very least it's a step up from Linebreaker.
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Post by W0lfBane on Apr 27, 2017 17:19:58 GMT
At the very least it's a step up from Linebreaker. A very low bar to clear. It's a shame is a step down from half the other ones.
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Post by novaspike on May 3, 2017 23:07:07 GMT
Despite the snark, I won a game of Coven vs Fyanna2 on scenario. Write up was in SR17 week 1 on CID.
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Post by cainuslupus on May 6, 2017 13:44:18 GMT
I won two games on scenario (Mercy rule), against Irusk2 and Sorscha1. I've lost one against Sorscha1 on assassination because of playing on scenario. I like SR2017. I never liked "old" scenario wins.
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Post by greytemplar on May 6, 2017 15:15:26 GMT
I won two games on scenario (Mercy rule), against Irusk2 and Sorscha1. I've lost one against Sorscha1 on assassination because of playing on scenario. I like SR2017. I never liked "old" scenario wins. So you like an unbalanced mess that the game is not designed to play in? SR17 is massively unfair to certain factions, as well as certain types of casters. It's not kind to all-rounder factions like Protectorate(our attrition went away with our denial), its not kind to any faction that cannot do attrition well like Circle, Cryx, or Legion, and its not kind to warcasters/locks who are really squishy because its far too hard to protect them long enough to win on scenario before they get assassinated. Scenario play, which is what made Warmachine the best competitive game out there, is basically dead as a viable win condition and it only exists as a tie-breaker or a "hey, you beat your opponent so hard it wasn't really a game at all!" Which is really a shame, because the best games of warmachine were the ones where it was a real fight to get to the 5 needed to win. That's been taken away, and the game is going to seriously suffer for it. Hopefully they'll see the error of their ways before SR18 goes into CID.
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Post by novaspike on May 6, 2017 18:59:29 GMT
I have to disagree on nearly all points.
SR17 requires you to take more all rounder lists, if only because if you don't diversify between warnouns and warriors, you'll end up dead on scenario.
One of the stated intents was to take away the ability of fast armies with control feats to jump up by 3 then coast to victory, and so far SR17 supports that. And I'm not sad to see that go. If you want to win on scenario you have to stay engaged the whole game, not play get ahead then turtle you caster.
I'll give you that recursion has an edge since things are more attrition focused, but most recursion now requires you to give up combat when you come back, so it's not overwhelming. At the very least, having an attrition focus incentives taking infantry again (and not all warjacks).
The terrain changes alone would make SR17 worthwhile since it forces meaningful terrain placement and rewards casters and list building that actually can deal with terrain. That brings up options that maybe aren't used as much before because they weren't optimized for offense.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on May 6, 2017 19:11:45 GMT
I don't think arguing with greytemplar makes any sense. He wants too hard to believe everything is bad and only going to be worse.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on May 7, 2017 0:55:45 GMT
I don't think arguing with greytemplar makes any sense. He wants too hard to believe everything is bad and only going to be worse. It's the same person who went by the handle "Po the Barbarian" on the old forums, I'm sure of it. Note how he can't resist picking fights he knows he can't win and just keeps doubling down with every defeat. And the way he relentlessly insists upon points that have been proven demonstrably false, even to the point of hard math, or more recently that it's impossible to win on scenario even though people do it all the time and some were worried that it was too easy in certain situations. How, when he's finally backed into a corner on something like that, he simply moves the goalposts. The way he outright lies about what people have said (himself or others) when we need only scroll up to see the truth. He once expressly told me that while he could not be bothered to pay any attention to what I'd actually said, he was going to try to argue with me and put me down anyway. In fact, I'll just show you a copy & paste verbatim, because this astounding Firetruckery must be seen to be believed. This was after I had done the math to show that a Mauler who rolls nothing but 6 on two dice will kill a Juggernaut with no buffs other than Rage cast from the Warlock, something another Juggernaut can't do, and he'd said that wasn't good enough. Then there was another argument over gun lines. I took it to PM, going out of my way to not embarrass the guy and give him every benefit of the doubt. I was not at all taking the side of Octavius, in fact, I was trying to de-escalate the situation if you can believe it, but like I said, Po doesn't care what the people he's arguing with are actually saying. Okay, so how do I know it's the same guy? All this could just be coincidence, right? Not when you add that his writing itself is literally identical. Right down to the word choice. Who the Firetruck else says "wouldn't you agree" to someone who clearly doesn't? Okay, so even if I'm sure of this, why do I have to make a fuss over it? Why not just throw him on the Ignore Pile like I did on the old forums and forget about it? Because he's still going to stir up as much shit as possible for as long as you let him and I still have to see that. And you all have to see it and waste time with it, and if we tolerate it, then this forum will quickly become the same toxic cesspool that the old forum was.I'm all for debate. I'm happy to argue and disagree and even be convinced to change my mind sometimes. But this Firetrucking asshat is not remotely interested in any of that. He's just trolling us. Period. And the crazy thing is, he might not even consciously realize that. Ban us both if you have to, because I'm not putting up with this shit anymore regardless.
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