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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 4, 2017 15:33:10 GMT
I have to say, Escort and Iron Sentinel is dirty. Having said that, this could be a good change, as it would decrease his ability to absolutely monopolize the board with zippy cheap khador jacks, make him actually play like terrain is a thing that exists, while still preserving the repositioning utility from the added speed. That being said, I do think it's a sidegrade rather than a downgrade, since it's an upkeep, not a 3-cost spell he has to recast every turn. Hes not supposed to be a "Gunline" caster but a TANK Caster. A Big part of tanks is the ability to navigate terrain. BUT, how about stripping away his 3+ arm part of the feat, and upping his ranged capabilities? |
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 4, 2017 16:57:14 GMT
I have to say, Escort and Iron Sentinel is dirty. Having said that, this could be a good change, as it would decrease his ability to absolutely monopolize the board with zippy cheap khador jacks, make him actually play like terrain is a thing that exists, while still preserving the repositioning utility from the added speed. That being said, I do think it's a sidegrade rather than a downgrade, since it's an upkeep, not a 3-cost spell he has to recast every turn. Hes not supposed to be a "Gunline" caster but a TANK Caster. A Big part of tanks is the ability to navigate terrain. BUT, how about stripping away his 3+ arm part of the feat, and upping his ranged capabilities? Isn't a big part of 'tanks' being hard to destroy, too? regardless, that'd be fine. Or alternatively, change something else and give him easy rider - tanks are known for their all-terrain capabilities, not so much their lightning-fast speed. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 4, 2017 18:14:05 GMT
tanks are known for their all-terrain capabilities, not so much their lightning-fast speed. Holy booping hell it all makes sense now. Every one of PPs Tanks all go lightning fast and want to get into melee....Just.Frack. This change would never happen because "Man you wouldn't want to get caught under the treads of a tank!" Honestly with Malakov 2 being speedy, I wouldn't mind Harkevich losing that binary niche, and having much improved ranged capabilities. It would represent tanks much better: Hard to destroy, slow, and shooty until they crush you underfoot. |
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 4, 2017 18:41:48 GMT
tanks are known for their all-terrain capabilities, not so much their lightning-fast speed. Holy booping hell it all makes sense now. Every one of PPs Tanks all go lightning fast and want to get into melee....Just.Frack. This change would never happen because "Man you wouldn't want to get caught under the treads of a tank!" Honestly with Malakov 2 being speedy, I wouldn't mind Harkevich losing that binary niche, and having much improved ranged capabilities. It would represent tanks much better: Hard to destroy, slow, and shooty until they crush you underfoot.     Yeah, the whole thing with the gun carriage's role bothered me as well. How does this sound (just spitballing here, don't crucify me): -exchanges Field Marshal (reposition 3") for Field Marshal (pathfinder) -exchanges Mobility for Guided Fire -Remove the free charges/slams/assault from his feat, and replace with one of the following: - Warjacks in this models' battlegroup gain counterblast for one round. Warjacks in Harkevich's battlegroup gain gunfighter for one round.
- Ranged Weapons belonging to warjacks in this models' battlegroup gain momentum for one round
Either option would give him the capacity for more of a controlling playstyle on feat turn, either really punishing an enemy that's trying to skirt the edges of his threat ranges and not engage while the armor buff is up (option 1) or give him the ability to control the enemy list by knocking them down/slamming them around with ranged attacks from a large ranged battlegroup. ***Also, increase the marauder's point cost by 1, and/or remove siege weapon, while we're making changes. Please. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 4, 2017 18:55:03 GMT
Yeah, the whole thing with the gun carriage's role bothered me as well. It did, but like I keep mentioning it's the visuals that bug me. Even TANKS don't ram targets (Again I got banned for saying that for a month on CID). The first version is a bit too much like a worse version of Kharchevs SPELLS as a result. I get what you're going for though. With the second one, Its a good idea but jacks with ROF 2 or so are gonna hate it which I think might be a problem. Or something. Maybe even Keep siege weapon, but Up it by 2 Points and give it grand slam? I wouldn't mind. |
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 4, 2017 19:06:25 GMT
Yeah, the whole thing with the gun carriage's role bothered me as well. It did, but like I keep mentioning it's the visuals that bug me. Even TANKS don't ram targets (Again I got banned for saying that for a month on CID). The first version is a bit too much like a worse version of Kharchevs SPELLS as a result. I get what you're going for though. With the second one, Its a good idea but jacks with ROF 2 or so are gonna hate it which I think might be a problem. Or something. Maybe even Keep siege weapon, but Up it by 2 Points and give it grand slam? I wouldn't mind. I mean, option 1 is still in tandem with the +3 ARM part of the feat, so it shouldn't be too weak. I also don't know that counterblast is worse than countercharge - it denies a much larger area of the field, and it can't be turned off by engaging the model with countercharge. Why do jacks with ROF 2 hate momentum? either they're knocking down their target to hit it more easily with the second shot, knocking down multiple targets, or increasing their output with slam collaterals. The only time it really hurts is if you're going for an assassination on a caster that's barely in range, doesn't have anything behind them to stop the slam, and is small/medium base...I wasn't really thinking of this as an assassination feat anyways, more of an attrition/control feat that CAN help with assassination. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 4, 2017 19:15:03 GMT
Why do jacks with ROF 2 hate momentum? Because if you hit with the first shot, it can knock it out of range for the second shot. In any case, it feels too, Gimmicky. Like What I hear described of Caine 3 in mercs. It requires taking allot of Jacks that are all pretty expensive, and then at the end of the day, all your getting is maybe a few momentum shots, mainly against targets that you really don't care about. |
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Post by mcdermott on Jun 11, 2017 4:55:30 GMT
Isn't broadsides just basically for using victor to try to set their important models on fire and for being tricky with that one clamjack so that you can clear his melee of chaff before he activates so he can keep his high arm? And i guess black ivan?
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Post by steamwitch on Jun 30, 2017 22:15:38 GMT
But the second time the attack will be unboosted, and will not gain any accuracy buffs. And incase you want to aim it also doesn't synergize, or in case you want to shoot and retreat (One of the Major advantages of reposition) you also don't benefit. That is the core problem. You are using THREE focus to get off unboosted 14 or 15 at RAT 4. Now if you have Crit devestated or brought a field gun (or 2) you might have that RAT problem fixed. But at POW 14 into ARM 18 you are spending 3 focus to put on another, on average, 3-4 damage. Not "bad" but not sure over the long run and many games you not just better off camping or allocating broadly. I agree that there are turns where Hark doesn't blow his stack and is perfectly safe. That is a "sad" turn. But I just can't make it work with RAT4/POW 14 to create better options. could a pair of artillirist assist in makeing the +2RAT and refill deviation distance/direction? |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 30, 2017 22:29:38 GMT
That is the core problem. You are using THREE focus to get off unboosted 14 or 15 at RAT 4. Now if you have Crit devestated or brought a field gun (or 2) you might have that RAT problem fixed. But at POW 14 into ARM 18 you are spending 3 focus to put on another, on average, 3-4 damage. Not "bad" but not sure over the long run and many games you not just better off camping or allocating broadly. I agree that there are turns where Hark doesn't blow his stack and is perfectly safe. That is a "sad" turn. But I just can't make it work with RAT4/POW 14 to create better options. could a pair of artillirist assist in makeing the +2RAT and refill deviation distance/direction? Could help but now we are paying 17 points and you have an order of activation issues Even then you need a 6 to hit, for example, a DEF 12 Cygnar jack. Not bad at all but still a 6. The deviation can turn lemons into lemonaide but not really THAT great. Then, if you hit, you are dice -4 against ARM 18. Again, not "bad" but just not really that likely to make or break the game. Give us POW 15/16/17 and we can start to really talk. But POW 14, unboosted, just is sorta "meh" in the game. Again, better than NOTHING if what it means is that Hark would be camping when he is at zero risks but if there is even a 1% chance he is far better off camping those three focus. In some senses Broadside is undercosted for Khador. As a 2 focus spell it would be AMAZING in our faction. But it has to be "three" because in other places (aka Mercs) you need it to balance out. (BTW - this doesn't mean that broadside is "bad" just that you should be aware their isn't a hidden "uber list" that is going to exploit it for profit. It will be even harder in SR2017 given the center blocking terrain rules and how that will further encourage us to bring our wonderfully "cheap" beatsticks. |
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Post by steamwitch on Jun 30, 2017 22:59:58 GMT
could a pair of artillirist assist in makeing the +2RAT and refill deviation distance/direction? Could help but now we are paying 17 points and you have an order of activation issues Even then you need a 6 to hit, for example, a DEF 12 Cygnar jack. Not bad at all but still a 6. The deviation can turn lemons into lemonaide but not really THAT great. Then, if you hit, you are dice -4 against ARM 18. Again, not "bad" but just not really that likely to make or break the game. Give us POW 15/16/17 and we can start to really talk. But POW 14, unboosted, just is sorta "meh" in the game. Again, better than NOTHING if what it means is that Hark would be camping when he is at zero risks but if there is even a 1% chance he is far better off camping those three focus. In some senses Broadside is undercosted for Khador. As a 2 focus spell it would be AMAZING in our faction. But it has to be "three" because in other places (aka Mercs) you need it to balance out. (BTW - this doesn't mean that broadside is "bad" just that you should be aware their isn't a hidden "uber list" that is going to exploit it for profit. It will be even harder in SR2017 given the center blocking terrain rules and how that will further encourage us to bring our wonderfully "cheap" beatsticks. True, I feel like alot of the utility for the Kapitan would be a bit lost unless you wanted to have a few weapon crew. I feel like hark wants to deal with infantry and have his army deal with jacks. I don't see why they took fortune away from him tho. I was also thinking Greylord Turnions could help with cloud duty and then land some ice cages. I am incredibly happy to see Marauders in lists because they can KD quite a bit. A list I have been toying with uses them with Malakov1 on KD duty and hark fires away. |
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2017 16:31:18 GMT
Could help but now we are paying 17 points and you have an order of activation issues Even then you need a 6 to hit, for example, a DEF 12 Cygnar jack. Not bad at all but still a 6. The deviation can turn lemons into lemonaide but not really THAT great. Then, if you hit, you are dice -4 against ARM 18. Again, not "bad" but just not really that likely to make or break the game. Give us POW 15/16/17 and we can start to really talk. But POW 14, unboosted, just is sorta "meh" in the game. Again, better than NOTHING if what it means is that Hark would be camping when he is at zero risks but if there is even a 1% chance he is far better off camping those three focus. In some senses Broadside is undercosted for Khador. As a 2 focus spell it would be AMAZING in our faction. But it has to be "three" because in other places (aka Mercs) you need it to balance out. (BTW - this doesn't mean that broadside is "bad" just that you should be aware their isn't a hidden "uber list" that is going to exploit it for profit. It will be even harder in SR2017 given the center blocking terrain rules and how that will further encourage us to bring our wonderfully "cheap" beatsticks. True, I feel like alot of the utility for the Kapitan would be a bit lost unless you wanted to have a few weapon crew. I feel like hark wants to deal with infantry and have his army deal with jacks. I don't see why they took fortune away from him tho. I was also thinking Greylord Turnions could help with cloud duty and then land some ice cages. I am incredibly happy to see Marauders in lists because they can KD quite a bit. A list I have been toying with uses them with Malakov1 on KD duty and hark fires away. And it is also what you give up. So consider the 14 point destroyer. 2 more than the Jugger. You are losing a POW 15 initial and your other initial is POW 2 less AND trades in the uber wonder of stationary for critical amputation. Don't get me wrong - when THAT goes off and it works out great it is fantastic (like against a Garg.) but in so many games I want a Juggernaught instead. The Decimator is even MORE challenged - 4 points more than Juggers - though is interesting because of ROF2 and thus the ability if you can to start shooting early and often with it. But in many lists I would rather have that under say a greyforge - getting magic weapon under aim at POW 17 with a focus to boost AND beatback. Take THAT Menoth. But in that situation you are probably better with a caster other than Hark (for instance Kozlov) to help with everyone's armor. |
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