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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 2:34:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 17, 2020 2:34:16 GMT
Hmm, that's a good point. Carver can get his road hogs sprinting away further than Helga2's can, after more reliably killing something due to his feat. Then has batten down the hatches to boot. Helga2 has her personal ability.
Her advantage over other supersolos is her threat range, but most of them have ways of threating further than 10-11". Here's a fun comparison. I play legion mainly, and Thags2 is in my current pair. Consider Thags2 with slipstream vs Helga2. Output, durability, feat, army support.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 5:51:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by shortcutbacon on Jan 17, 2020 5:51:18 GMT
Now if the local Skorne players would stop pointing out that the new Terrorizer coming out at the same time both hands out Helga level speed buffs on a stick and hits as hard as she does in melee with Zaadesh1 (probably harder if that module is taken with Makeda3) all for the cost of two Requisition slots that can be taken with nearly any Warlock, that would be great. What else are local Skorne players to do after every minions warbeast was given to them for free? Now granted some are not the most optimal choice but still feels like a kick to the stomach, especially when they always seem to get a release soon after that puts ours to shame. Im reminded of that simpsons episode where Homer buys the lobster and adopts it as a pet. Farrow: "Excuse me but where the hell is my solo-lock?" Will: "I over exaggerated. Skorne, I made you some risotto!" *Happy Skorne noises* Welp back to the salt mines for me.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 6:23:28 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 17, 2020 6:23:28 GMT
What else are local Skorne players to do after every minions warbeast was given to them for free? Now granted some are not the most optimal choice but still feels like a kick to the stomach, especially when they always seem to get a release soon after that puts ours to shame. Im reminded of that simpsons episode where Homer buys the lobster and adopts it as a pet. Farrow: "Excuse me but where the hell is my solo-lock?" Will: "I over exaggerated. Skorne, I made you some risotto!" *Happy Skorne noises* Welp back to the salt mines for me. Haha, I'm not really salty over the Terrorizer, and generally speaking I think pig Warlocks run Minion beasts better than Skorne Warlocks. Makeda3 and Xerxis2 can extract some sterling work out of Hogs and Swamp Horrors, but I still think the Hogs are at their best with Arkadius, and name a Warlock who runs a Dracodile better than Sturm and Drang. The situation isn't that dire. The new super solo pig Warlock and the new Skorne lesser Warbeast being entertainingly close in terms of output is indicative of Helga's issues, but not something that makes me cranky at Skorne per se.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 8:35:43 GMT
Post by charlzheimer on Jan 17, 2020 8:35:43 GMT
i'll be honest. i am looking forward to playing helga2.
she has a very diverse kit and while not mastering 1 thing she feels flexable enough to just build a "rush forward army"
maybe abuse those cavalry charges on razor boars. i look forward to her. i really do (IF i can get my hands on her. cuz boy there is like...nothing new in the EU anymore...getting models is legit a challenge.)
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Post by Azahul on Jan 17, 2020 13:04:50 GMT
I'm frankly looking forward to playing her too, in much the same way I'm looking forward to playing some more Helga1 now once I get my Flugwug painted up, or maybe even Midas when I've put the finishing touches on my Dhunian Archons. I.e. as a change of pace to what I normally play, and as a Warlock that won't immediately tilt the locals the way seeing Arkadius sometimes does.
I just hope that by the time she actually releases she'll be that and also be somewhat impactful and potentially a competitive choice. Doesn't need to be the best Farrow Warlock, but at least be worthy of reasonable consideration.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 13:25:33 GMT
Post by Dirhavel on Jan 17, 2020 13:25:33 GMT
So much negativity in this thread... Can't say I disagree with most of it though That said, one thing that I haven't seen mentionned yet is Void Archons with her feat. That's a lot of movement shenanigans which is bound to be fun to play at the very least.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 13:26:39 GMT
Post by charlzheimer on Jan 17, 2020 13:26:39 GMT
So much negativity in this thread... Can't say I disagree with most of it though That said, one thing that I haven't seen mentionned yet is Void Archons with her feat. That's a lot of movement shenanigans which is bound to be fun to play at the very least. you can only have one "end of activation" movement.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 13:30:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Jan 17, 2020 13:30:56 GMT
So much negativity in this thread... Can't say I disagree with most of it though That said, one thing that I haven't seen mentionned yet is Void Archons with her feat. That's a lot of movement shenanigans which is bound to be fun to play at the very least. you can only have one "end of activation" movement. Void walk isn’t end of activation so you still can walk spray tp end activation feat move. It is actually pretty good, really because flying over the lines to behind them kinda works here
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 13:45:02 GMT
Post by Dirhavel on Jan 17, 2020 13:45:02 GMT
Exactly, it means you can apply dark shroud and/or Entropic aura fairly easily on feat turn.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 13:45:53 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 17, 2020 13:45:53 GMT
I've had Void Archons in every list I've written for her. The advantage of the Feat is... a little bit more mixed though I think than it might initially seem. If you were planning on some hit-and-run shenanigans with the Feat, then the Archons are in a weird spot. They would have to stay in melee with the enemy for other models to benefit from the armour debuff, but they're an expensive model to throw away for a 2 point damage swing on a turn where you are presumably trying to cheat trades. If you opt to run away, then odds are you aren't taking advantage of the Feat fully because a 14" move away from the enemy is so far that it risks the Archon not being relevant next turn. Use much less than the full 14" though and you may as well have taken another Warlock and brought Boomie for the Reposition.
Now there are uses of course, the Archons can effectively get anywhere to apply Dark Shroud and Entropic Force if you're pressing hard on the Feat turn rather than backing off, but the times when it leverages something above and beyond the Archon's baseline functionality feels like it could be rarer than would be ideal.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 14:56:56 GMT
via mobile
Azahul likes this
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Jan 17, 2020 14:56:56 GMT
It seems like every plan I try and make with Helga just turns into a run on sentence of all the things and pieces that need to go right to make it work. Like if I got elasticity on the void archons then the feat move to behind enemy models and back 2” has ok possibilities to help keep them alive more since no charges and them turning around to deal with the archon leaves the rest of my army nicely open, but in order to get elasticity I need mire and now with mire I have a small cloud wall so Helga might be more aggressively upfield but also mire isn’t getting full fury from having only a swamp horror so he needs to cut so maybe kwaak can hop in to top him off turn to turn and pass out enliven which can be ok with the more mobile beasts. Then I just stop and realize this one interaction is like a third of my list already
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 14:59:13 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 17, 2020 14:59:13 GMT
It seems like every plan I try and make with Helga just turns into a run on sentence of all the things and pieces that need to go right to make it work. Like if I got elasticity on the void archons then the feat move to behind enemy models and back 2” has ok possibilities to help keep them alive more since no charges and them turning around to deal with the archon leaves the rest of my army nicely open, but in order to get elasticity I need mire and now with mire I have a small cloud wall so Helga might be more aggressively upfield but also mire isn’t getting full fury from having only a swamp horror so he needs to cut so maybe kwaak can hop in to top him off turn to turn and pass out enliven which can be ok with the more mobile beasts. Then I just stop and realize this one interaction is like a third of my list already Yeah... I resemble this remark. Then a little while later you sit there and realise almost no part of the combos and interactions you're building are actually anything to do with Helga, and would be equally or more effective with very literally any other Warlock.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 15:08:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Jan 17, 2020 15:08:19 GMT
It seems like every plan I try and make with Helga just turns into a run on sentence of all the things and pieces that need to go right to make it work. Like if I got elasticity on the void archons then the feat move to behind enemy models and back 2” has ok possibilities to help keep them alive more since no charges and them turning around to deal with the archon leaves the rest of my army nicely open, but in order to get elasticity I need mire and now with mire I have a small cloud wall so Helga might be more aggressively upfield but also mire isn’t getting full fury from having only a swamp horror so he needs to cut so maybe kwaak can hop in to top him off turn to turn and pass out enliven which can be ok with the more mobile beasts. Then I just stop and realize this one interaction is like a third of my list already Yeah... I resemble this remark. Then a little while later you sit there and realise almost no part of the combos and interactions you're building are actually anything to do with Helga, and would be equally or more effective with very literally any other Warlock. I mean elasticity at least can help other elements like meat thresher or even just an extra 1” of threat on many of the beasts or archons but yeah, it’s literally as effective as anybody else doing that same thing
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 18:10:06 GMT
Post by Dirhavel on Jan 17, 2020 18:10:06 GMT
I think my biggest fear regarding Helga2 isn't even the lack of army support or personal output. It's that the feat moves only happen if you hit during activation.
I can already see it happening : You can have the nicest plan laid out for a feat turn, but then one critical model misses it's attacks and stays in an inconvenient spot, blocking charge lanes and whatnot.
And that will happen more often than we'd like, there's a lot of Mat 6/Rat 5 in faction and Helga does nothing to help with that except the cavlary charges.
That alone might end up turning me off the caster haha.
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Helga2
Jan 17, 2020 22:54:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 17, 2020 22:54:01 GMT
Here and the minions facebook are both pretty negative. The minions chats are relentlessly upbeat, even about poor releases so even though I'm down on minions this comes as a surprise. People must have some experience to see she just isn't a good caster.
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