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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jul 23, 2019 11:21:15 GMT
I don't understand why the 2" rule had to go, now you're often playing this theme with zero special rules. Because it was removed from all themes bar Hammer Strike? You are getting the same treatment as anybody else. Glad you bring up the theme with three special rules. And good ones at that. It's like custardboy said, why not replace that second rule with something else then? Especially when the one remaining rule is so specific? On a different note, what theme are people leaning towards now? Childeren seems awesome now, giving us almost everything we've (thematically) wanted from legion ever since the themes dropped... Dragons and elves, together again at last.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 23, 2019 11:23:55 GMT
I'm quite sure that PP views "free Hellmouths" as a theme benefit, and they have said as much about other themes; that some will get extra benefit from powerful Requisitions rather than an explicit theme benefit.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 23, 2019 12:25:42 GMT
Because it was removed from all themes bar Hammer Strike? You are getting the same treatment as anybody else. Glad you bring up the theme with three special rules. And good ones at that. It's like custardboy said, why not replace that second rule with something else then? Especially when the one remaining rule is so specific? On a different note, what theme are people leaning towards now? Childeren seems awesome now, giving us almost everything we've (thematically) wanted from legion ever since the themes dropped... Dragons and elves, together again at last. Glad we are talking about a theme that is filled to the brim with powerful models UNLIKE Hammer Strike. Seriously, your most competitive theme is virtually unchanged. That in and of itself should make you happy. Yes, I understand +2" not getting an replacement is no fun, but the theme is virtually the same in functionality. Or are you willing to tell me the whole theme falls apart because 2" are missing? If so, please elaborate, because i have not seen that complaint on any of the other faction themes that have lost the +2" benefit.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 23, 2019 12:33:49 GMT
I'm quite sure that PP views "free Hellmouths" as a theme benefit, and they have said as much about other themes; that some will get extra benefit from powerful Requisitions rather than an explicit theme benefit. *Cries in Winter Guard*
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Jul 23, 2019 12:41:46 GMT
Because it was removed from all themes bar Hammer Strike? You are getting the same treatment as anybody else. Glad you bring up the theme with three special rules. And good ones at that. It's like custardboy said, why not replace that second rule with something else then? Especially when the one remaining rule is so specific? On a different note, what theme are people leaning towards now? Childeren seems awesome now, giving us almost everything we've (thematically) wanted from legion ever since the themes dropped... Dragons and elves, together again at last. Loving the new CotD but also super interested in new Ravens. Not being bound to the flying circus for the battlegroup is pretty nice and some people are poopooing on Mark Target but I've always wanted it in Legion ever since the Mk3 Shepherd nerf. Our RAT has always been bad thanks to the eyeless sight tax, so boosting to hit is almost required; Mark Target will help that a lot, as well as help a few units. It feels like you can make an actually good shooting list which I feel we've lacked for a while (although I've been out of the loop a while too so maybe this isn't actually true). I wish you could slide archers in there but at least they have CRA. They're still not even that good really, I just have a few fun lists I wish I could run them in. My one big gripe is there still feels like we don't have a true battlegroup theme. You can technically/absolutely run battlegroup heavy in many of these themes now which is great, but you're not getting a ton of benefits for doing so when you look at the model selection and benefits. It's sad to me since Legion was the premier beast faction for so long. I think I just have to accept that isn't what they want Legion to be anymore but having trouble doing so. Would have much rather them doubled down on Oracles as that, since that was what most of us used it for anyway, but they went with the weird minions skew instead which feels kind of out of place. It's not necessarily unwelcome, as I've always wanted a way to turn a chosen minion unit/solo blighted etc via unit attachments like some other factions have, but it just feels a bit wasted to make an entire theme around it.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jul 23, 2019 14:11:07 GMT
Glad you bring up the theme with three special rules. And good ones at that. It's like custardboy said, why not replace that second rule with something else then? Especially when the one remaining rule is so specific? On a different note, what theme are people leaning towards now? Childeren seems awesome now, giving us almost everything we've (thematically) wanted from legion ever since the themes dropped... Dragons and elves, together again at last. Glad we are talking about a theme that is filled to the brim with powerful models UNLIKE Hammer Strike. Seriously, your most competitive theme is virtually unchanged. That in and of itself should make you happy. Yes, I understand +2" not getting an replacement is no fun, but the theme is virtually the same in functionality. Or are you willing to tell me the whole theme falls apart because 2" are missing? If so, please elaborate, because i have not seen that complaint on any of the other faction themes that have lost the +2" benefit. Why do you criticize me for wanting to retain a rule that you consider pretty much worthless? That doesn't make sense to me. I allways liked that rule myself but apparently I'm not asking for the moon here? As for that "most competitive blahblah" nonsense... it was the ONLY theme that could be described as such, because it was the only one that was complete. Legion themes were horrendous and with the current changes, childeren and ravens finally don't feel like a broken disfunctional mess. In fact I like them a lot more then terrors atm. Could be that new car smell though.... or something to that extend, I never owned a car.
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Post by josephkerr on Jul 23, 2019 14:25:21 GMT
Glad we are talking about a theme that is filled to the brim with powerful models UNLIKE Hammer Strike. Seriously, your most competitive theme is virtually unchanged. That in and of itself should make you happy. Yes, I understand +2" not getting an replacement is no fun, but the theme is virtually the same in functionality. Or are you willing to tell me the whole theme falls apart because 2" are missing? If so, please elaborate, because i have not seen that complaint on any of the other faction themes that have lost the +2" benefit. Why do you criticize me for wanting to retain a rule that you consider pretty much worthless? That doesn't make sense to me. I allways liked that rule myself but apparently I'm not asking for the moon here? As for that "most competitive blahblah" nonsense... it was the ONLY theme that could be described as such, because it was the only one that was complete. Legion themes were horrendous and with the current changes, childeren and ravens finally don't feel like a broken disfunctional mess. In fact I like them a lot more then terrors atm. Could be that new car smell though.... or something to that extend, I never owned a car. I think when u can take two units with distant deploy and a solo with unbinding and exorcist for free, u solve gremlin swarms and contesting the side zones immediately, and there will always be a place for warlocks who struggle with both or who wanna cram their lists with workers over support, like the Thagroshs, Rhyas1, Fyanna, and Anamag.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 23, 2019 19:04:58 GMT
Glad we are talking about a theme that is filled to the brim with powerful models UNLIKE Hammer Strike. Seriously, your most competitive theme is virtually unchanged. That in and of itself should make you happy. Yes, I understand +2" not getting an replacement is no fun, but the theme is virtually the same in functionality. Or are you willing to tell me the whole theme falls apart because 2" are missing? If so, please elaborate, because i have not seen that complaint on any of the other faction themes that have lost the +2" benefit. Why do you criticize me for wanting to retain a rule that you consider pretty much worthless? That doesn't make sense to me. I allways liked that rule myself but apparently I'm not asking for the moon here? As for that "most competitive blahblah" nonsense... it was the ONLY theme that could be described as such, because it was the only one that was complete. Legion themes were horrendous and with the current changes, childeren and ravens finally don't feel like a broken disfunctional mess. In fact I like them a lot more then terrors atm. Could be that new car smell though.... or something to that extend, I never owned a car. I do not consider the benefit worthless, it it were worthless PP wouldn't remove it across the game. But that's the thing: Everyone loses that benefit and there's a number of themes that have retained only one benefit, so it's not like your faction got the short end of the stick, especially since Hellmouths pretty much solves any scenario issues you could encounter. So, as I said, i think the theme will remain functional. My only gripe here is people complaining and calling the new PT (a theme that was very strong for the last.. 6 months?) unplayable or something, which I don't understand for the reasons listed above. With all that being said, you didn't do that, you were asking why the benefit had to go and that probably doesn't warrant the snark i put into my posts. I felt cranky because of the recent posts and it doesn't help that everyone here uses the same profile pic, so in my head i just lumped you guys together. So i apologise for that, also in part because as a khador player i understand the feeling of seeing benefits go with no replacement.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 24, 2019 1:36:31 GMT
Ravens or children will be our battlegroup theme now. The primary benefit of oracles was getting free charges with sorceresses, now those are requisition options in the other themes.
For me, it is a question of whether I want access to Golab or Typhon and hellmouths or ice witches. That's about it.
Mark target on lessers could be considered our beast benefit. It's not amazing but it's alright, especially with harriers as a requisition option.
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Post by fanbloodytastic on Jul 24, 2019 2:44:59 GMT
Oracles will still have a place for some beast heavy lists, IIRC it’s still the only one where you get the combo of free sorceress and hellions along with access to both forsaken and shepherds.
That and thrones, thrones should still be good.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jul 24, 2019 10:11:08 GMT
Why do you criticize me for wanting to retain a rule that you consider pretty much worthless? That doesn't make sense to me. I allways liked that rule myself but apparently I'm not asking for the moon here? As for that "most competitive blahblah" nonsense... it was the ONLY theme that could be described as such, because it was the only one that was complete. Legion themes were horrendous and with the current changes, childeren and ravens finally don't feel like a broken disfunctional mess. In fact I like them a lot more then terrors atm. Could be that new car smell though.... or something to that extend, I never owned a car. I do not consider the benefit worthless, it it were worthless PP wouldn't remove it across the game. But that's the thing: Everyone loses that benefit and there's a number of themes that have retained only one benefit, so it's not like your faction got the short end of the stick, especially since Hellmouths pretty much solves any scenario issues you could encounter. So, as I said, i think the theme will remain functional. My only gripe here is people complaining and calling the new PT (a theme that was very strong for the last.. 6 months?) unplayable or something, which I don't understand for the reasons listed above. With all that being said, you didn't do that, you were asking why the benefit had to go and that probably doesn't warrant the snark i put into my posts. I felt cranky because of the recent posts and it doesn't help that everyone here uses the same profile pic, so in my head i just lumped you guys together. So i apologise for that, also in part because as a khador player i understand the feeling of seeing benefits go with no replacement. Points taken. I have to say those comments were confusing to me, I took them as sarcasm. Looking forward to trying something liek this in childeren, see what we can get out of the new theme rule. The Twins - 75pt childeren 32 Blightbringer 8 naga 14 seraph 18 raptors 9 min swordmen - 0 UA swordmen 8 min legionairs - 0 UA farilor 10 2x nyss warlord 0 craelix Basically the "Tao of the twins list" but without the defender neph (so many to hit bonusses these days) and a whole lot of extras because of all the freebees. Don't know if a warlord should go to up the legionaires to max.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jul 24, 2019 13:59:48 GMT
I actually really like the Mark Target theme benefit because it makes Striders and Banshees capable of reliably using their ranged attacks without special caster support. RAT 8 Strider Rangers actually do what they are supposed to, and RAT 7 Banshees can actually get work done too. Combine that with Hellmouths to contest while enabling landsharks to do the heavy lifting. Meanwhile Blightblades and Grotesques jam. It actually seems like a fully functional theme now!
Oracles with Incubi and Corrosion will have specific questions to ask enemy 1-wound infantry spam, and with Puppet Master and Ice Cages not caring about friendly faction, they work well with z Minions. But it's pretty much awful as a beast theme, but I don't think it's really intended to be.
CotD... I'm not sure what this theme is really supposed to do. Nyss infantry is ok but not amazing, unyielding on Nephilim is cute but most Nephilim aren't very good... So to me the defining factor is this theme is access to Nyss infantry... So I guess if Archers and Swordsmen and *snicker* Legionnaires are really your thing, this is theme for you.
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Post by maneck on Jul 28, 2019 3:43:03 GMT
That Blight Wasp change is odd. They increased the cost (by 50%) per model, presumably because a single blight wasp's HP went way up. However, with no corresponding buff to offensive output (perhaps even diminished since their animus no longer hits 4 models with one cast), it seems like increasing the points means blight wasps will no longer be taken in packs of 4.
The blight wasp animus now affecting all Legion lesser warbeasts would be nice if Legion lesser warbeasts were better.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jul 28, 2019 15:52:31 GMT
Could be cool with a beastmistress pack under kryssa.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 29, 2019 18:39:37 GMT
Could be cool with a beastmistress pack under kryssa. Are they supposed to be able to be taken under a Beast Mistress? They aren't listed as an option. Or is it a bug that needs to be reported?
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