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Post by deathbymelancholy on May 30, 2019 11:19:13 GMT
For anyone that put some time into the Great Chieftain, what did you find to be an optimal battlegroup for him?
With reload two he looks to want Far Strike, but the Bomber seems sub-optimal as a heavy, but the Impaler has its own issues as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of an Impaler/Brawler although I've toyed with a King of some sort as well.
What did you find to be working well in a not-POD battlegroup for him?
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Post by Trollock on May 30, 2019 15:56:06 GMT
When in doubt, bomber mauler!
I honestly dont think it matters super much. If you go for a SotN list WITH the stone elder, you might consider NK beasts. If you go BoH with enough ARM crack in the form of champions, you could go for double bouncer plus impaler or axer and try and get a CotT going from the chronicler.
When in doubt though, bommber mauler 😅
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Post by gobber on May 31, 2019 4:21:14 GMT
He also runs a gargantuan pretty well; soothing song lets it max out on fury then still serve as a transfer target and since he wants to camp some fury every turn the lone gargant is enough to fill him up (whelps or chef are helpful). Also means Maddy gets a nice valuable target to shield guard and has an easy time keeping his entire battlegroup in his aura.
If playing storm of the north with a stone I'd go Glacier for the NKE buffs and the free fortune upkeep. Otherwise, Mountain King really likes fortune on its assault spray/killshot, the deafen effect plus rebuke lets you prevent charges all over the board, it brings its own whelps, and can kill pretty much anything with rage+spellpiercer.
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Post by Trollock on Jun 2, 2019 19:02:51 GMT
One thing about soothing song though... I forgot (as i always seem to do) that it is actually a terrible spell and does nothing... If you want to use it to remove fury from the MK for example, that MK can not get Rage or spell piercer from Madrak so... That plan doesnt work. Seems all casters with that spell has the exact same problem, regardless of faction  |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 3, 2019 11:33:42 GMT
Just because of an activation order? That's not exactly insurmountable or an unusual condition.
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Post by ghoulio on Jun 3, 2019 13:36:59 GMT
Just because of an activation order? That's not exactly insurmountable or an unusual condition. But...it kind of is. When you NEED the caster to go before your beast/jack for specific buffs like Rage and Spell Piercer, its kind of a waste of time to have Soothing Song which would make it "insurmountable" to use. It's like Lylyth 2 in Legion. She has to go first in every turn to throw out Pin Cushion...so she literally cant use Soothing Song so it's simply a dead spell on her spell list. I personally cant think of any Casters that have soothing song that can actually use it, so Trollock is 100% correct in his assessment. |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 3, 2019 15:32:49 GMT
I disagree in respect to Madrak, can't comment on anyone else. But that's life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513 
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Post by joedj on Jun 4, 2019 14:42:54 GMT
Soothing Song COULD be a spell that when cast, triggers at the beginning of that player's next Maintenance phase. A general support spell, for Fury control across a whole (PoD) army. Providing future protection from Frenzies.
As it is now, because of activation order, it's a niche spell, usually for removing 1 Fury from 1-2 beasts that a player had to leave Fury on from their last turn, with a goal of increasing the performance of that beast(s) by one attack or boost.
Is it ok to a have niche spell? Maybe. But it does feel like this particular spell has a timing issue.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Jun 4, 2019 15:39:16 GMT
Madrak3 has a Fury problem, wants to upkeep Fortune/Rebuke, wants to cast Spellpiercer, wants to spend 1 to set P-Aura, wants to keep max Fury for P-Aura, wants to throw 2 spears, wants to have a transfer safety. Probably our most Fury conflicted warlock! SotN seems like a natural fit, free Upkeep on NK. Runebearer a must. Also an alternate KSB Aura at a distance to help buff (SPD or STR) the troops holding the other side of the field, cause Madrak's Aura is going to be small, often. So what beasts are options in SotN that are unique? My (theory) preferences are for Ice Troll (Swift Hunter+Crit), Basher (Icy Breath+Crit), Rok. But this will probably be a trap  . Madrak will fail to kill something with his thrown spear, both, so Swift Hunter won't proc. With no SPD buff, the static threat ranges of Rok and Basher will not be an enemy deterrent. It's the type of BG I love to field, but doesn't perform to necessity against meta. What does Madrak himself NEED, to hold his flank? Earth's Blessing. One KD or stationary and he's toast. EBDT and Mauler are my BG of choice for him, rationally. Without Farstrike, I'm less inclined to run him down on Fury, making his army do the heavy lifting. Boring Warlock. But to keep him safe...Because he really does not have the tools to be assisting actively in an assassination. (The sad thing about M3 is he's never had the opportunity to shine, in MK2 or MK3. KC with Madrak3 CID would really be a welcome thing!) |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 5, 2019 14:12:35 GMT
Edit. Nevermind.
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Post by anoddman on Jun 13, 2019 19:26:58 GMT
Madrak3 has a Fury problem, wants to upkeep Fortune/Rebuke, wants to cast Spellpiercer, wants to spend 1 to set P-Aura, wants to keep max Fury for P-Aura, wants to throw 2 spears, wants to have a transfer safety. Probably our most Fury conflicted warlock! As someone who has played A LOT of Madrak3, he's never really trying to do all of that in one turn. Spellpiercer is also such a need it/don't need it spell that most matchups he goes without casting it. Most turns you can get away with Protective Aura (1), upkeep Fortune (2), free Earth's Blessing from Harmonious Exaltation, Camp 4. That's an 8" aura and lots o' transfers. I mean, he's still bad and confusing and desperately needs a CID to focus him down to something, but I never really find him too Fury-strapped. I might go down to 3 if I want to chuck two spears. I'll echo joeDJ though and say Mauler/Earthborn is my favorite. Earth's Blessing is super good, and having two beefy heavies after your opponent finally chews through all that infantry is really nice. |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 13, 2019 20:42:23 GMT
Madrak3 has a Fury problem, wants to upkeep Fortune/Rebuke, wants to cast Spellpiercer, wants to spend 1 to set P-Aura, wants to keep max Fury for P-Aura, wants to throw 2 spears, wants to have a transfer safety. Probably our most Fury conflicted warlock! As someone who has played A LOT of Madrak3, he's never really trying to do all of that in one turn. Spellpiercer is also such a need it/don't need it spell that most matchups he goes without casting it. Most turns you can get away with Protective Aura (1), upkeep Fortune (2), free Earth's Blessing from Harmonious Exaltation, Camp 4. That's an 8" aura and lots o' transfers. I mean, he's still bad and confusing and desperately needs a CID to focus him down to something, but I never really find him too Fury-strapped. I might go down to 3 if I want to chuck two spears. I'll echo joeDJ though and say Mauler/Earthborn is my favorite. Earth's Blessing is super good, and having two beefy heavies after your opponent finally chews through all that infantry is really nice. So, Madrak is not Fury starved as long as you do not use his spells? In that case he basically does nothing at all for the list...
You WANT to cycle Fortune at the very least id say. You also WANT to snipe and throw two spears to contribute. Sure, you can just not do those things and then you can camp a lot, but you can say the same thing about any caster ever. Just dont use their spells and they wont be fury starved  |
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Post by dickovdk on Jun 17, 2019 7:27:16 GMT
All this talk about Maddy3 made me find the model and throw some paint in his direction. And in our locale group the talk fell upon him.
He is actually pretty solid when looking at him again Def14 arm20 is pretty good. Spells are good however Spellpiercer and Soothing of course is opposite activation wise. But thats tool box for ya. Rebuke and Fortune are both great. Feat : Mk2 Boomhowler-tough noKnockdown and repo(3) is good in another meta where antitough isnt all over the place.
As for battlegroup - Bomber is my favorite choice - Madrak3 like farstrike but also because bombers often end up at 4 fury and therefore cannot be transfered too, with soothing that becomes a possibility.
Idea being for normal turns:
Northkin raiders (with fortune for free in Storm) activate...
Bomber activate and fire away 4 fury (always)...
Secondary beast [light] activate (could be Bouncer, Impaler, IceTroll, SwampTroll etc) and load up to max
Moses cast Harmonious...
Activate Maddy cast
Fortune on 2nd Raider Unit (1)
Far strike (1)
Soothing (1)
Spell piercer (2)
for total of 5.
Second unit raiders activate (now with fortune AND Spellpiecer)
list could be something like
Madrak3
- Runebearer (free)
- Bomber
- Bouncer (Shield guarding the stone)
Valka (free)
Min Stone + NKE
Champs + Skaldi (free)
2x Bears
2x NK Raiders
feat will then help aid the 40 model - still not a fan of the feat but the list is also focused on M3 spell list rather than feat. Feat is just a bonus if it comes up
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Post by anoddman on Jun 22, 2019 23:43:58 GMT
As someone who has played A LOT of Madrak3, he's never really trying to do all of that in one turn. Spellpiercer is also such a need it/don't need it spell that most matchups he goes without casting it. Most turns you can get away with Protective Aura (1), upkeep Fortune (2), free Earth's Blessing from Harmonious Exaltation, Camp 4. That's an 8" aura and lots o' transfers. I mean, he's still bad and confusing and desperately needs a CID to focus him down to something, but I never really find him too Fury-strapped. I might go down to 3 if I want to chuck two spears. I'll echo joeDJ though and say Mauler/Earthborn is my favorite. Earth's Blessing is super good, and having two beefy heavies after your opponent finally chews through all that infantry is really nice. So, Madrak is not Fury starved as long as you do not use his spells? In that case he basically does nothing at all for the list...
You WANT to cycle Fortune at the very least id say. You also WANT to snipe and throw two spears to contribute. Sure, you can just not do those things and then you can camp a lot, but you can say the same thing about any caster ever. Just dont use their spells and they wont be fury starved The Aura itself is contributing. The only reason you take Madrak3 over anyone else is for getting access to a Protective Aura without paying for it. In every other way, Madrak3 is outclassed by other 'locks in the faction. Honestly, you don't really need to cycle Fortune. Madrak3 plays best with 2 units of Fennblades, and as long as War Cry goes on both, Fortune is only going on the unit that's charging into higher DEF stuff. After Fennblades charge in, Fortune goes on Madrak since he carries a good chunk of the late game. Chucking two spears is tempting, but most of the time you don't need to. If you need to, you weigh your options. Like a lot of other casters in the game, what you need turn to turn fluctuates. As the game goes on, the need for a larger aura decreases. You can get away with camping two and chucking two Far Struck spears on turn 4, but you probably can't on Turn 2. All I'm saying is that the notion that Madrak3 is a caster that wants to cast Far Strike, reload his ranged attack, trigger his Protective Aura, cast Earth's Blessing, Upkeep Fortune, cycle Fortune, cast Soothing Song and cast Spellpiercer all in the same turn is just plain wrong. Camping 3-4 on turn 2 (maybe 3) is usually enough to keep your important stuff (Champs, Long Riders, Warders) in range of the Aura while still giving you enough Fury to ward off most assassination attempts. For reference, here's the list I usually run: conflictchamber.com/?c7201b_-0agP9DiRjq6G6GhmiS0b0c0b0c6lcATrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes [Madrak 3] Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Gremlin Swarm [3] Trollkin Champions (min) [10] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Trollkin Long Riders (min) [12] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] Is it passable? Yes. Is it as good as running something similar with Madrak1? No, not at all. I just like the model a heckuva lot. |
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. Madrak will fail to kill something with his thrown spear, both, so Swift Hunter won't proc. With no SPD buff, the static threat ranges of Rok and Basher will not be an enemy deterrent. It's the type of BG I love to field, but doesn't perform to necessity against meta.
